Hira asks, in Western countries, there's a tendency for having small families, for example, one or two children.
So let's say the offspring ordain as monks or nuns.
Eventually, for example, the parents become ill.
Due to the sophisticated medical services, whatever physical problems can be temporarily deferred over the years.
However, it leaves them in a vulnerable state.
So to what extent are monks or nuns permitted to practically aid their vulnerable parents, for example as a duty?
Presumably there are some boundaries which are not suitable for someone who is ordained.
So in some cases one may be left with the dilemma,
Not to practically help beyond a certain limit or disrobe.
A tricky scenario, especially if one is not long ordained.
Is long ordained.
Is long ordained, sorry.
But not to help may invite condemnation from society.
May I start now?
You start.
Mm-hmm.
Go ahead.
We are allowed to help our parents.
There are certainly some things that we can't do.
So if I would go home and help my mother, if she ever needs it, I could go and do it without any problem.
but there will be things like I could do things like helping her at home I could even go so far and cook her meals although I probably couldn't eat them myself then what I could not do is go shopping for her for example or
yeah that that should be solved otherwise but I think there are solutions to do this like but yeah that there is is no problem the the problem is
more in the mind of the person who has to go and help or not and being afraid of the condemnation of society or
not being willing to leave the seclusion of a forest or a monastery to go and help.
But I think the Buddha was very clear that we can help and that the parents have a very high priority in a person's life.
So if it's possible, we should always consider to do it.
And I think, especially relating back to the earlier question about doing jobs for laypeople, I think it has to be said that there might come a situation where the person feels that they have to disrobe to take care of their parents.
This happens a lot in Thailand.
So I would say the number two reason
or it's up there anyway, the reasons why monks disrobe.
It's even a reason why, as you say, long-term monks, they do actually disrobe.
And I know one person in particular who was ordained for 17 years, I think,
and then left to take care of his mother.
And it's often an excuse that's used by monks, because they don't really want to be a monk, but they don't want to just say, they feel like they're trapped in it.
So they need a really good excuse, and they use their parents as an excuse.
But in his case, it's quite clear that that was the reason why he disrode because now he collects recycled items.
He goes picking through garbage and looking for broken things, you know, discarded bottles by the side of the road.
And he lives very much like...
Gatakara, the potter, who looked after his mother for the same reason and was an anagami and lived at home with his mother making pots.
So this guy in Thailand, he really does live that way and he was quite impressive to me.
impossible to not be humbled by his state of being that he lives very much like a monk and he cooks and he makes food for his parents and he eats cold rice when he gets home from his daily work and he makes just enough money to take care of himself and his mother and spends the rest of his time ostensibly in meditation and study and seclusion
So that's one way and you can clearly see that in the scriptures with Katakara.
He looked after his mother in this way.
But there are other examples.
There's one example of a monk who looked after his parents as a monk.
his parents were very rich and he went forth as a monk thinking that they would be well taken care of and the story goes that they slowly slowly became destitute and eventually lost their homes and became beggars in the same town where he had lived and one time he was going back on alms round and
walked through the city and suddenly saw his parents begging for food on the same streets.
And they were, I think, blind, barely see, so they didn't recognize him, but he saw them.
And he cried so much, looking at his parents in such a destitute condition.
just was totally in anguish and unsure of what to do because of his love for them, but also his love for Buddhism and his love for the monastic life.
And
So many days later the monks started noticing that he became very, very thin.
And so some of them started to think, well, here he's living very close to the Buddha and yet he's not able to get enough alms.
It's quite amazing, especially with so many devout followers of the Buddha who are so keen to support the monks with the requisites.
So they followed him on alms round and they saw that what he did is went through the city collecting as much alms as he could, brought it back and fed his parents.
And whatever was left he ate himself.
And so as a result he wasn't getting adequate nutrition or he was getting less nutrition than was ideal.
And so they right away went back to the Buddha and tattled on him and said that here's this monk acting in this way.
What are we going to do with him?
And the Buddha said, call him to me.
And so they called the monk to come to see the Buddha.
And the Buddha said, is it true that you're acting in this way?
And he said, yes, it's true.
And of course he's so much in anguish because here the Buddha is going to tell him something, maybe tell him not to do it.
And the Buddha said, very good, well done.
The Buddha said, I did the same one, I've done the same myself in past lives.
And he told his tale of the past where he had done a similar thing.
The point here is that if it's possible, there are many ways that you can overcome the conflict.
So depending on conditions, if you are able to go on alms round now, if your parents live in a place like America, in rural America somewhere, you probably wouldn't be able to go live with them and
and go on alms rounds so you might have to resort to shopping and so on if you're an only child and if they're in a society that doesn't take care of people and they're old and so on so it may be the case and I don't think I think one answer to the question is that it may be necessary that they do have to disrobe
But this also points to the fact that one should not be negligent in one's course of action.
One should be keeping some sort of tabs on one's parents, every year going back and seeing them or contacting them once a year.
and making sure that they're alright but also trying to bring them closer to where you're at because there are cases where monks actually invite their parents to come and live with them in the monastery and take care of them or come to live near them
In Thailand, for example, there are monks who will bring their parents to come and live with them in the monastery and take care of them when they're old, which is interesting.
You may have some conflict there in terms of the monastic structure,
at least find some way to arrange your life and help them arrange their life so that you are able to take care of them and so that you don't get to that position.
Because it's really fairly rare where there isn't enough support for the parents to take care of themselves.
If it happens, you have to take it as it goes.
And you could consider that it simply means that you don't have the required perfections to stay as a monk.
because I wouldn't recommend ignoring the fact that your parents are in a bad condition.
And if that means that you'd have to disrobe, then you live your life like a monk as best you can and take care of your parents, which is a great thing.