1
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When you think of the Buddha's appearance, do you think of him as in the iconography or in another way?

2
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And what's your view on the 32 signs of a great man?

3
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No, I don't think of him really like most of the iconography.

4
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I don't think of him as made of brass or stone or with all the weird colors that they put him in.

5
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I think of him in a robe.

6
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Usually I think of him with me bowing down at his feet.

7
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I'll tell you the truth.

8
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When I think of the Buddha or the Sangha, either way I think of myself.

9
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I see their feet first, really.

10
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And I see them in robes.

11
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It's just a vision that comes.

12
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The 32 signs of a great man are

13
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a source of a lot of difficulty, I think, for Westerners.

14
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I was asking about them.

15
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I mean, just let's be open-minded.

16
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I was arguing, playing devil's advocate, and I said, well, how is it possible for someone's mouth, someone's tongue, to cover their forehead?

17
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I mean, really.

18
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Getting your tongue to your ears is, well, or getting your tongue to your ears, how is that possible?

19
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So we argued it, you know.

20
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My feeling was it really just meant that he had a long tongue.

21
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But no, people take it literally that his tongue could cover his whole forehead and touch both ears.

22
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But the argument that they use is that there are very strange sorts of beings out there.

23
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There are people with very strange body parts.

24
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For example, one interesting thing I found was I was recently alerted to the fact that Moggallana is said to have had blue skin.

25
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So he's shown with blue skin in Sri Lanka.

26
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Whenever you see a picture of Moggallana he's blue.

27
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So I asked why is that monk blue?

28
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And they said it's Moggallana.

29
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And they explained it's because he just came from hell and the fear of hell was so sharp in him that he was born with blue skin.

30
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And so, you know, that's hard to believe.

31
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But then I read in this book that someone in England, a few hundred years ago, was actually born with blue skin and had blue skin through their life.

32
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So that's an example of how you really can't say for sure.

33
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What I would say is that with anything like this,

34
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It's really just a matter of fact was it true that the Buddha had a tongue that could touch his ears and many other Mostly that's really the biggest one one of the poses the biggest problem for me I think there was another one, but the tongue one is probably the biggest I

35
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So did he have such a tongue or did he not?

36
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And once you pose that question, you can of course ask yourself, does it matter?

37
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And of course it doesn't.

38
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There's so many questions like that.

39
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Was it true that the Buddha did this?

40
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Was it true that the Buddha did that?

41
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Is it factually correct?

42
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Are all these stories actually true that we hear about devas coming down and this happening and that happening?

43
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Did the Buddha really perform this miracle or that miracle?

44
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It's just a question of historical fact.

45
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Did it happen or did it not?

46
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And then does it matter whether it did or not?

47
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Because in Buddhism it doesn't.

48
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It doesn't matter whether the Buddha performed any miracles or not.

49
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It doesn't matter whether he was a dwarf or a hunchback.

50
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I'm sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful.

51
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I'm not trying to disrespect, but it has no impact on the Dhamma.

52
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It has some impact on our faith.

53
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And if the Buddha had been, perish the thought, a dwarf or a hunchback, we would think, well, how could such a perfect person be born in such a state?

54
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Based on the teachings of the Buddha, you'd have to think of him as being born in a much more perfect form.

55
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But it doesn't have an impact on our practice, other than that.

56
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Alfred?

57
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For me, there are certain suttas, what I read,

58
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I don't look at the whole canon as the inerrant word of the Buddha.

59
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Certain suttas just stand out as truth to me, to my inner core, and some do not.

60
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And so I will look at them and just put them on a back burner and don't get too caught up to it.

61
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I realize how old these texts are.

62
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there's that one and a few others that just to when I read them jump out at me like it's you know possibly a lot later edition yeah I don't know but I don't let it bother me because the ones that ring true ring deeply true to me and and you know the the others I just

63
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and I appreciate the fact that they're there, but I realize that I don't think that this whole canon is without error.

64
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Yeah, but the only thing that I would say in defense of it is that we are not perfect either.

65
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I mean, this example, I'm not going to spend too much time defending it, but I have had examples of that sort of thing.

66
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And you have to realize that everyone... We come to the Dhamma with prejudices.

67
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That's why it's so important for us.

68
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And those prejudices are going to color what we find valid and what we find invalid.

69
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So I've had arguments with monks about this suit to being invalid or that.

70
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And once you point something out to them, they have to concede the fact.

71
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that their whole reason for doubting it was, you know, improbable.

72
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So, for example, just give a simple silly example, the fact that Moggallana had blue skin.

73
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And as I said, it isn't without precedence even in recorded history.

74
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So who knows?

75
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We aren't perfect that we know everything that's possible.

76
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We don't know whether it could have been the fact that the Buddha did have such a big tongue.

77
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And of course we don't know that it was maybe just an exaggeration.

78
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Of course it might not be.

79
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The point, I think, being that it's not really a core Buddhist teaching.

80
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I mean, it's not going to shake the foundations of Buddhism if we find out that the Buddha didn't really have such a tongue.

81
00:07:50,202 --> 00:08:00,897
So, but definitely in this case, I'd have to say that it's not one of the suttas that I reread as inspiration for my own practice.

82
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Although, there are some aspects of the, I believe it's the Mahaparisa Lakkhanas Sutta, no?

83
00:08:06,605 --> 00:08:10,911
Or the, I don't remember what it's called, the one in the Digha Nikaya with the Lakkhanas?

84
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has some really interesting things, like how the Buddha would chew every rice grain.

85
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No rice grain was swallowed without having been chewed.

86
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Now that is inspiring.

87
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The way he sat, the way he walked, the way he talked, those parts of his mannerisms, and then how he says, and that's a small fragment of the virtues of the Buddha.

88
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If you read that, it's just an incredibly inspiring passage.

89
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Of course, it kind of spoils it when you're still thinking, but what about the tongue?

90
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But, no, I think that there's something really valuable in that, the one particular sutta that I'm thinking.

91
00:08:59,721 --> 00:09:03,385
But I want to caution... Sorry?

92
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No.

93
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Like magical powers.

94
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If you don't have them, it doesn't mean that they don't exist.

95
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Exactly.

96
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Many people are totally able to throw out all the magical powers, which is ridiculous.

97
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There are many people out there who have had experiences that are magical, that can only be described as out-of-body experiences, whatever.

98
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And I'm convinced that that is reality.

99
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Anyone who practices meditation sees that things aren't exactly as they seem here.

100
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One day, maybe one day, physics will catch up and start to realize.

101
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Look at quantum physics, how it's totally shattered our concept of what reality is.

102
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We can't really describe reality anymore.

103
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So no one's in a position to say this can't be.

104
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,742
So another point that you might make is,

105
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From our understanding of magical powers, if someone wants their tongue to touch their toes, it's possible to develop a power in some radical way to do that.

106
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There are magical things that can be done with extreme concentration and focus.

107
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Of course, this is totally radical talk and most people won't accept it, which is why, in short, the best answer is put them on the back burner, as Alfred says.

108
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Don't pay too much attention to them.

109
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You know, it shouldn't be a sticking point where you say, you know, I can't believe in Buddhism because I can't believe that the Buddha had such a tongue.

110
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No, that would be a shame.

111
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I think the best thing to do would be to say, oh, that's interesting.

112
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Buddha had a tongue like that?

113
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Wow.

114
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Because who cares?

115
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I mean, what is it about us that we have to deny such things?

116
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No, I won't rest until I find the truth of this one.

117
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I won't rest until I can prove that the Buddha didn't have such a tongue, right?

118
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So why not just say, okay, Buddha had such a tongue, that's cool.

119
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Can I get back to meditation now?

120
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Why not?

121
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Why not?

122
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There was a teacher in Thailand who said, Buddhism puts the magic back in life.

123
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Which, you know, I'm just quoting it off the top of my head.

124
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I don't particularly hold to such a quote.

125
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But what she is trying to say is this exact thought.

126
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I wouldn't say we should try to put the magic back into life particularly, but

127
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To some extent we have to let go of this obsession with skepticism and the desire to disprove and to doubt things.

128
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Basically the desire to doubt things.

129
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So it's actually kind of a useful teaching in that sense.

130
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It catches you and you start doubting and then the teacher can say, look at the doubt.

131
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It's useful.

132
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Get people thinking.

133
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It's like a Zen koan.

134
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The Buddha had a tongue that could touch his ears.

135
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Think about that until you let go of your doubt.

136
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Maybe you could become enlightened on it even.

137
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No?

138
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Anyway.

139
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Great.

140
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I'm glad we've got some conversation going on with these.

141
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We're not going to get through many questions this way though, which is okay.