1 00:00:01,027 --> 00:00:03,153 Would anything cause you to disrobe? 2 00:00:03,514 --> 00:00:05,459 Do you see any benefit to the lay life? 3 00:00:08,407 --> 00:00:10,513 They're kind of two different questions. 4 00:00:12,147 --> 00:00:13,969 Would anything cause me to disrobe? 5 00:00:13,989 --> 00:00:19,796 I have seen circumstances where people were forced to disrobe. 6 00:00:19,836 --> 00:00:27,265 People who had no interest in the lay life were forced to disrobe, generally dealing with their parents. 7 00:00:28,847 --> 00:00:36,857 There's one really impressive man in Thailand who was a monk for 17 years and a very strong meditator. 8 00:00:38,879 --> 00:00:41,462 And by all appearances seems to be 9 00:00:43,062 --> 00:00:46,286 perhaps one of the four enlightened types of beings. 10 00:00:47,167 --> 00:00:55,838 Probably not an arahat, because they say that requires ordination, but certainly a very strong meditator and a very wise individual. 11 00:00:55,878 --> 00:01:06,471 And he collects garbage and sells garbage in Thailand, sells recyclables, which is actually a fairly lucrative trade. 12 00:01:06,451 --> 00:01:23,886 But he just gets on his motorcycle with a sidecar or a trailer or something and he rides around looking for garbage to pick up and to sell or to trade or whatever. 13 00:01:26,262 --> 00:01:53,113 but he had to disrobe because of his mother I can't remember the exact story but his mother was sick and couldn't take care of herself and he was her only son and so he felt he had to disrobe and he lives his life celibate and alone and a very simple life he cooks food for his mother and then goes off to work and comes back in the evening and then they say he eats cold rice 14 00:01:53,093 --> 00:01:57,519 And so he lives quite a noble life. 15 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:07,592 So what I mean to say is that even in his case where he was obviously someone who was quite advanced, he still felt the need to disrobe. 16 00:02:07,613 --> 00:02:11,918 So I can't say that nothing would cause me to disrobe. 17 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:19,168 But I think they're two pertinent questions because it points to the fact that you would have to see something 18 00:02:19,148 --> 00:02:48,025 some benefit in the lay life to disrobe people tend to make a mistake about disrobing that it's giving up something that you're giving up the path I suppose it's not a mistake but it's really only one way of looking at the issue because disrobing doesn't just mean taking off the robes I mean if it just means taking off the robes you become a naked ascetic or something or become an animal again 19 00:02:48,005 --> 00:03:00,599 But it means taking off the robes and generally means putting on another set of culturally and role specific clothing. 20 00:03:02,441 --> 00:03:06,245 Because when you put on pants it really does have quite a meaning. 21 00:03:07,927 --> 00:03:13,793 Pants are not the default and the t-shirt or whatever it is that you end up wearing. 22 00:03:13,773 --> 00:03:21,104 Or not the default, in fact, you might think that robes are much more a default clothing, and that's why the Buddha chose them. 23 00:03:22,566 --> 00:03:34,483 So, to become a lay person again, you would have to have, I would think you would have to see some benefit in the lay life. 24 00:03:34,503 --> 00:03:38,169 You would have to think that somehow there was a benefit to lay life. 25 00:03:38,229 --> 00:03:40,472 Do I see any benefit in the lay life? 26 00:03:40,452 --> 00:03:53,534 Besides the benefit that I just mentioned, taking care of your parents, which I'm still skeptical of, because in many cases you can, as a monk, take care of your parents. 27 00:03:53,674 --> 00:03:55,056 You can't do everything for them. 28 00:03:55,136 --> 00:04:00,385 But for myself, I wouldn't probably have such a concern. 29 00:04:00,405 --> 00:04:01,988 I can't say that. 30 00:04:02,028 --> 00:04:04,452 You never know what the future is going to bring. 31 00:04:04,432 --> 00:04:11,043 But there are always ways to, even as a monk, to support your parents. 32 00:04:12,305 --> 00:04:22,862 For example, given that I have a number of students who appreciate what I do and wish for me to continue doing what I do, 33 00:04:22,842 --> 00:04:33,680 I can explain to them, you know, if there is a desire for me to remain a monk, then maybe I can have some people help me to help my parents. 34 00:04:33,821 --> 00:04:34,702 This is an example. 35 00:04:34,862 --> 00:04:40,612 So in my case, it's not that pressing of a concern or not that big of a worry. 36 00:04:40,632 --> 00:04:45,981 And I might someday want to go back to Canada to be closer to them. 37 00:04:45,961 --> 00:04:51,107 Yeah, I'm always thinking of that, but that's, I think, another story. 38 00:04:51,127 --> 00:04:55,613 Obviously, it wouldn't be to disrobe, and I don't have any thought in that direction. 39 00:04:57,875 --> 00:05:05,405 But seeing a benefit, right, besides taking care of your parents, seeing a benefit in the lay life, no. 40 00:05:06,386 --> 00:05:09,049 No, I don't see any benefit in the lay life. 41 00:05:11,037 --> 00:05:15,604 It really speaks of where your mind is. 42 00:05:16,546 --> 00:05:26,662 The point is that personally I don't see a great benefit in, for example, supporting or contributing to society. 43 00:05:27,364 --> 00:05:31,290 Because I think maybe this is something that keeps people as lay people or makes them disrobe. 44 00:05:31,270 --> 00:05:48,553 they want to go and do good things in the world and they feel like as a monk or a nun that they're not able to do that which I think is really or I don't see things in that way so as a result I probably wouldn't follow such a thought 45 00:05:48,533 --> 00:05:56,910 Because from my point of view, the thing that helps people the most is meditation and the practice of the Buddhist teaching. 46 00:05:57,351 --> 00:06:06,390 I mean, even today, just the wonderful things that went on in this ceremony, again and again, it's such a wonderful thing. 47 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:18,627 to give and to be a part of giving and even not to give, but to rejoice in the giving of others, to watch other people give and be generous and be kind and be helpful. 48 00:06:19,228 --> 00:06:20,530 That's just a wonderful thing. 49 00:06:20,570 --> 00:06:29,343 And it's a wonderful thing that becomes so very powerful in a Buddhist context because it's our spiritual practice. 50 00:06:29,563 --> 00:06:33,829 Of course, it would be the same, I suppose, in a Christian context. 51 00:06:33,809 --> 00:06:52,251 or Jewish context, whatever context, Muslim context, a Hindu context, this giving, of course, given our belief or our view, our opinion that the Buddha's teaching is the purest. 52 00:06:54,074 --> 00:06:58,839 Of course, because it's very much the core of the Buddha's teaching is to do good deeds and to avoid bad deeds. 53 00:06:58,859 --> 00:07:01,943 There's no... 54 00:07:01,923 --> 00:07:14,404 no overhead, there's no extraneous views or opinions or beliefs or practices. 55 00:07:14,925 --> 00:07:23,860 The practice is really to make yourself a better person, to make your mind more pure by giving gifts and by keeping morality. 56 00:07:24,702 --> 00:07:27,306 So this is really our spiritual practice. 57 00:07:27,286 --> 00:07:34,416 And this is the wonderful thing, is that this is people getting together to do this in a spiritual sense. 58 00:07:35,638 --> 00:07:44,971 And you can only really get that in a community like this, or it becomes much more powerful in a community like this, in a monastic community. 59 00:07:45,171 --> 00:07:49,497 And there's no question in my mind that 60 00:07:50,759 --> 00:08:11,434 The benefit of being a monk is the greater benefit to oneself and to others to the whole world Even just as an example even just as someone it's a very powerful thing to be an example to to see someone Doing good things to see someone meditating 61 00:08:11,414 --> 00:08:18,846 When we're sitting around and suddenly we see one of us is meditating, we all remember, oh yes, and it brings us back to our meditation. 62 00:08:19,327 --> 00:08:25,898 But it can really change your life, and of course it's changed many people's lives, just to see other people ordained. 63 00:08:27,140 --> 00:08:37,978 When we go on alms round or when people come to the monastery and see us, they're so happy, and it really changes people. 64 00:08:37,958 --> 00:08:47,992 So I don't see benefit because I'm not really concerned about society or the direction that it's taking or the benefits towards society. 65 00:08:48,012 --> 00:08:58,347 I'm concerned, I suppose, or concerned I'm interested or I don't know how to put it correctly. 66 00:09:00,318 --> 00:09:11,649 I enjoy, I suppose, and appreciate and do as a matter of course, try to help people, help humanity. 67 00:09:13,270 --> 00:09:15,452 But I don't think that has anything to do with the lay life. 68 00:09:15,552 --> 00:09:18,235 I don't think the lay life is anything that benefits people. 69 00:09:18,315 --> 00:09:27,203 Because of course, when you put on the pants, when you put on the shirt, when you go to get a job, you're taking part in many of the things that we see as being the problem. 70 00:09:27,183 --> 00:09:35,119 the consumerism and materialism and just so much uselessness that goes on out there. 71 00:09:35,620 --> 00:09:46,862 Even just our interaction with people who come here, the comparison, what they get from us and what we pick up from them is really two different things. 72 00:09:46,842 --> 00:09:48,405 Two totally different things. 73 00:09:48,465 --> 00:10:02,775 So what we get from them is their greed and their stress and their frustrations and sadness and suffering that they have in their lives and living in the world. 74 00:10:04,645 --> 00:10:15,162 And when you compare it with the peace and the happiness and the simplicity of the life that we lead, it's really not difficult to make a choice. 75 00:10:16,184 --> 00:10:28,965 I would say the biggest reason, the only really powerful reason that leads people to disrobe is sensuality or sexuality, to put it bluntly. 76 00:10:28,945 --> 00:10:31,389 I suppose you could expand that to sensuality. 77 00:10:31,409 --> 00:10:36,739 Some people are just attached to food, for example. 78 00:10:36,839 --> 00:10:45,655 It's funny how silly people can be as wanting this food or wanting that food and knowing that as a monk it's not convenient to get it. 79 00:10:45,635 --> 00:10:48,780 you know, entertainment and so on. 80 00:10:50,043 --> 00:10:54,210 But at the core, I would say sexuality, and it's something that leads people to not be able to ordain. 81 00:10:54,751 --> 00:11:05,389 Now, I've, you know, been down there, that road, and I'm happy to discuss that, the question of sexuality. 82 00:11:05,429 --> 00:11:08,554 It's really a... 83 00:11:08,534 --> 00:11:34,980 That's one of the more wonderful benefits of being a Buddhist monk, is to look objectively at the sexual desire, at the sexual impulse, and to come to break it up, as I've said in other videos, and to see the pieces of it, to see the pleasure, and to finally 84 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:41,451 Because even as lay people we repress and we feel guilty about our sexual desires, right? 85 00:11:41,471 --> 00:11:44,577 It's something that you have to do in private and something that you have to hide. 86 00:11:47,342 --> 00:11:51,028 But we... 87 00:11:51,008 --> 00:11:58,456 we still, even though we might say a Buddhist monk is someone who's repressing these desires, it's actually the opposite. 88 00:11:59,317 --> 00:12:05,784 You finally have a forum in which you can approach these issues. 89 00:12:06,325 --> 00:12:10,730 You can sit in your kuti and you can not have to feel guilty. 90 00:12:11,050 --> 00:12:13,132 You say, well, I know I'm not going to follow it. 91 00:12:13,172 --> 00:12:16,476 I'm just sitting here and I have this desire and so on. 92 00:12:16,456 --> 00:12:18,778 And so actually it winds up being the opposite. 93 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:29,667 But finally you have a chance to say, yes, I have this sexual desire, I have this pleasure arising in the body, all these chemical reactions and so on. 94 00:12:30,888 --> 00:12:32,630 Anyway, that's not really what the question was about. 95 00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:46,041 But for myself, I think I've been lucky to have good teachers and 96 00:12:47,692 --> 00:12:55,069 I'm able to 97 00:12:55,977 --> 00:13:01,044 look honestly at the issues that are inside myself. 98 00:13:01,965 --> 00:13:07,452 These issues where you might say, I know it's wrong, but I have to disrobe. 99 00:13:08,714 --> 00:13:20,770 It seems to me that when you really look at them and when you are honest about them, that they cease to become a problem and they simply become another object of meditation. 100 00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:37,200 Good question, and these questions are always interesting, I think, for people, because there's a lot of people out there looking to ordain, or sorry, considering ordination, so interesting to talk about. 101 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:43,872 And these are also the videos that become very contentious, because half the people say, wonderful, wonderful, I agree completely, and other people who say, 102 00:13:43,852 --> 00:13:46,737 how can you denounce society and lay life? 103 00:13:46,797 --> 00:13:50,482 And the Buddha said that lay people could become enlightened as well, and so on and so on. 104 00:13:50,502 --> 00:14:09,252 So there's nothing wrong with being a lay person, and you can practice meditation, but there's no question that from a Buddhist point of view, the monastic life or the simple meditative life is to be... 105 00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:15,675 You could say, really could say the monastic life is of greater benefit. 106 00:14:16,295 --> 00:14:27,769 So you're giving up something that is of lesser benefit or is of lesser use or is less conducive for the practice of meditation because of course the monastic community has its benefits as well. 107 00:14:28,290 --> 00:14:38,783 Even though lay people can live meditative simple lives, it's very easy for them to get off track and to get lost because of the lack of discipline 108 00:14:38,763 --> 00:14:44,928 and community, which is gained from being a Buddhist monastic. 109 00:14:44,948 --> 00:14:46,595 So those are my thoughts. 110 00:14:47,117 --> 00:14:48,503 Just some thoughts.