Okay.
It says, what happens with the mind if someone becomes a once-returner or non-returner?
Just talk a little bit about these two stages.
What happens to the mind?
Good one.
How do you answer such a question?
If someone becomes a once-returner or non-returner.
Yeah, I see the question.
You mean with fetishism?
Yeah, I mean, I could just answer it from the books, but I don't think that's really a satisfying answer, and I don't think that's what they want to hear.
Well, a once returner is someone who has
really begun to turn away from sensuality, has become totally comfortable.
Not just comfortable, but has explored all avenues of sensual pleasure.
Maybe explored isn't the right word.
has come to understand all avenues of sensual pleasure, has come to see them objectively for what they are, and is no longer frightened by their sensual attractions, is no longer disturbed by them, and sees them simply as...
maybe an old bad habit, or as one would see the remnants of an old bad habit, like our usage of certain slang words that we just can't kick.
They're just kind of hanging around and every so often they come out.
They've done the same with anger.
And so as a result, these things are not strong in them.
They still exist, and this person is not fully developed in their
state of mind the mind is still subject to I guess you could say even hypocrisy in the sense of doing things that are against one's own best wishes so a once returner can still be married of course they will never break the five precepts but that's a sotapanna also will not they will seem um
I mean, it's difficult to give this answer, really, because once you stray outside of the texts, you're in difficult territory.
but they will seem to be quite pure.
And it's common to think that everyone who has been practicing meditation for any time, any length of time, is an arhat, right?
Or...
eventually to think this, or to think that they must be a non-returner or something.
It's very difficult, I would say, for most people to tell the difference between a once-returner and a non-returner.
A once-returner still has remnants of greed and anger.
A non-returner has no remnants of...
aversion or attraction, sensual attraction, they still have
desire for becoming and desire for non-becoming.
So desire to be this or to become that.
So maybe they might go out of their way to teach people still.
A non-returner, what you would still sense in them is the desire to do good deeds, help other people,
you would still sense in them a sort of activity that would be absent from the arahat.
An arahat would not have any feeling, you would not get any feeling from them that they were actively seeking anything out.
It would be, you know, it's fairly blatantly obvious if you spend some time with them that they have no activity.
I mean, I guess the word I'm looking for is intention.
They have no karmic intention in the sense of trying to seek out results.
whereas an anagami would still have this subtle sense of trying to seek out results.
But the difference between an anagami and a sakidagami, a once-returner and an on-returner,
is that you would probably see the once-returner laughing in a different way.
An anagami might still laugh.
Some people say an arahant would never laugh.
I don't know about that.
I don't like to say such things.
Someone even said that an arahant would not yawn, which I think is going too far.
We shouldn't attribute any physical characteristics as requirements to be enlightened.
But you might have a different quality of laughter as a once-returner.
There would be more physical manifestation of desire, so you would find them getting excited and even flustered because of their desires still.
You'd find them more irrational than an anagami.
And so from time to time, seeking out pleasures, or enjoying pleasures, or expressing their partiality for certain things, it might still come up.
Now, they've gone far in terms of seeing the problem with these things, and they could never hold the belief that sensual pleasures are a good thing, by any means.
And it would be very subtle in a sakitakana.
But it still might be evident.
It should be still evident to a conscious and a careful observer that this person still has partialities, still even has desires for beautiful sights and sounds and smells and so on.
They can still get irritated when they see or hear or smell or taste or feel or think something that is unpleasant.
So I would say that is the sum of the differences.
The best thing to do would be to get an anagami here and a sakadagami here, and then spend some time watching them and studying them.
But this is the best we can do.