1 00:00:00,773 --> 00:00:02,877 Okay. 2 00:00:03,358 --> 00:00:12,854 It says, what happens with the mind if someone becomes a once-returner or non-returner? 3 00:00:13,455 --> 00:00:16,080 Just talk a little bit about these two stages. 4 00:00:18,625 --> 00:00:20,708 What happens to the mind? 5 00:00:22,652 --> 00:00:22,832 Good one. 6 00:00:28,752 --> 00:00:29,773 How do you answer such a question? 7 00:00:29,793 --> 00:00:34,137 If someone becomes a once-returner or non-returner. 8 00:00:34,157 --> 00:00:35,058 Yeah, I see the question. 9 00:00:42,446 --> 00:00:43,167 You mean with fetishism? 10 00:00:44,067 --> 00:00:53,477 Yeah, I mean, I could just answer it from the books, but I don't think that's really a satisfying answer, and I don't think that's what they want to hear. 11 00:00:59,752 --> 00:01:10,622 Well, a once returner is someone who has 12 00:01:17,234 --> 00:01:24,926 really begun to turn away from sensuality, has become totally comfortable. 13 00:01:24,946 --> 00:01:33,679 Not just comfortable, but has explored all avenues of sensual pleasure. 14 00:01:34,721 --> 00:01:36,323 Maybe explored isn't the right word. 15 00:01:36,303 --> 00:02:00,420 has come to understand all avenues of sensual pleasure, has come to see them objectively for what they are, and is no longer frightened by their sensual attractions, is no longer disturbed by them, and sees them simply as... 16 00:02:01,970 --> 00:02:19,060 maybe an old bad habit, or as one would see the remnants of an old bad habit, like our usage of certain slang words that we just can't kick. 17 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:25,952 They're just kind of hanging around and every so often they come out. 18 00:02:28,835 --> 00:02:30,038 They've done the same with anger. 19 00:02:30,078 --> 00:02:35,089 And so as a result, these things are not strong in them. 20 00:02:36,071 --> 00:02:44,970 They still exist, and this person is not fully developed in their 21 00:02:44,950 --> 00:03:14,434 state of mind the mind is still subject to I guess you could say even hypocrisy in the sense of doing things that are against one's own best wishes so a once returner can still be married of course they will never break the five precepts but that's a sotapanna also will not they will seem um 22 00:03:16,169 --> 00:03:30,381 I mean, it's difficult to give this answer, really, because once you stray outside of the texts, you're in difficult territory. 23 00:03:32,150 --> 00:03:34,856 but they will seem to be quite pure. 24 00:03:34,876 --> 00:03:48,045 And it's common to think that everyone who has been practicing meditation for any time, any length of time, is an arhat, right? 25 00:03:49,147 --> 00:03:49,568 Or... 26 00:03:51,134 --> 00:03:56,881 eventually to think this, or to think that they must be a non-returner or something. 27 00:03:58,242 --> 00:04:07,153 It's very difficult, I would say, for most people to tell the difference between a once-returner and a non-returner. 28 00:04:07,173 --> 00:04:10,997 A once-returner still has remnants of greed and anger. 29 00:04:12,419 --> 00:04:18,846 A non-returner has no remnants of... 30 00:04:18,826 --> 00:04:26,035 aversion or attraction, sensual attraction, they still have 31 00:04:29,103 --> 00:04:35,270 desire for becoming and desire for non-becoming. 32 00:04:36,211 --> 00:04:38,213 So desire to be this or to become that. 33 00:04:40,075 --> 00:04:42,918 So maybe they might go out of their way to teach people still. 34 00:04:42,938 --> 00:04:54,891 A non-returner, what you would still sense in them is the desire to do good deeds, help other people, 35 00:04:57,655 --> 00:05:11,076 you would still sense in them a sort of activity that would be absent from the arahat. 36 00:05:11,096 --> 00:05:18,668 An arahat would not have any feeling, you would not get any feeling from them that they were actively seeking anything out. 37 00:05:18,648 --> 00:05:26,746 It would be, you know, it's fairly blatantly obvious if you spend some time with them that they have no activity. 38 00:05:27,588 --> 00:05:29,633 I mean, I guess the word I'm looking for is intention. 39 00:05:30,916 --> 00:05:35,526 They have no karmic intention in the sense of trying to seek out results. 40 00:05:35,506 --> 00:05:40,796 whereas an anagami would still have this subtle sense of trying to seek out results. 41 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:48,992 But the difference between an anagami and a sakidagami, a once-returner and an on-returner, 42 00:05:52,583 --> 00:05:59,331 is that you would probably see the once-returner laughing in a different way. 43 00:05:59,851 --> 00:06:01,313 An anagami might still laugh. 44 00:06:02,554 --> 00:06:04,977 Some people say an arahant would never laugh. 45 00:06:06,519 --> 00:06:07,340 I don't know about that. 46 00:06:08,101 --> 00:06:09,262 I don't like to say such things. 47 00:06:11,745 --> 00:06:15,489 Someone even said that an arahant would not yawn, which I think is going too far. 48 00:06:15,629 --> 00:06:22,337 We shouldn't attribute any physical characteristics as requirements to be enlightened. 49 00:06:22,317 --> 00:06:30,790 But you might have a different quality of laughter as a once-returner. 50 00:06:30,830 --> 00:06:51,480 There would be more physical manifestation of desire, so you would find them getting excited and even flustered because of their desires still. 51 00:06:54,194 --> 00:06:57,184 You'd find them more irrational than an anagami. 52 00:06:59,999 --> 00:07:09,971 And so from time to time, seeking out pleasures, or enjoying pleasures, or expressing their partiality for certain things, it might still come up. 53 00:07:10,052 --> 00:07:25,611 Now, they've gone far in terms of seeing the problem with these things, and they could never hold the belief that sensual pleasures are a good thing, by any means. 54 00:07:26,292 --> 00:07:29,736 And it would be very subtle in a sakitakana. 55 00:07:29,716 --> 00:07:32,860 But it still might be evident. 56 00:07:33,381 --> 00:07:48,620 It should be still evident to a conscious and a careful observer that this person still has partialities, still even has desires for beautiful sights and sounds and smells and so on. 57 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:54,728 They can still get irritated when they see or hear or smell or taste or feel or think something that is unpleasant. 58 00:07:56,260 --> 00:07:59,167 So I would say that is the sum of the differences. 59 00:08:00,190 --> 00:08:07,930 The best thing to do would be to get an anagami here and a sakadagami here, and then spend some time watching them and studying them. 60 00:08:08,772 --> 00:08:12,582 But this is the best we can do.