WEBVTT 00:27.638 --> 00:55.738 Good evening everyone Welcome back to Evening Dhamma Tonight I was asked to look at the Anattalakshana Sutta Which I think is 00:56.967 --> 00:57.648 a good idea. 00:57.708 --> 01:11.142 The Natalakana Sutta, the discourse on the characteristic of non-self has much to do with our meditation practice. 01:20.352 --> 01:23.515 So a little background on this talk that the Buddha gave 01:28.321 --> 01:55.932 when the Buddha to be was a young prince these many astrologers came to see the Buddha and to predict his future based on his stars and all of them but one 01:57.380 --> 02:26.053 predicted one of two possible futures for the prince that if he stayed at home he would become king of the world and if he left home and went off to become a recluse in the forest he would become a perfectly enlightened being 02:33.914 --> 02:48.474 But one of the astrologers disagreed and said, there's only one future for this young prince. 02:50.777 --> 02:53.340 He's going to leave home and he's going to become a Buddha for sure. 02:54.903 --> 02:56.164 This is the legend that we have. 02:56.184 --> 02:58.167 This is the story that's been passed down. 03:02.146 --> 03:17.097 But it's related to this sutta because five of those astrologers, when the Buddha to be left home, five of them followed him. 03:22.729 --> 03:23.310 And 03:27.914 --> 03:33.782 spent six years with him torturing themselves, practicing all sorts of torture. 03:36.245 --> 03:54.090 The idea in the time of the Buddha was that given that sensual desires lead to addiction and you can see what that's doing to ourselves and our societies and our world. 03:55.589 --> 04:03.156 You can see how much suffering comes from sensual desire, greed, what we call greed. 04:05.117 --> 04:17.849 Spiritually speaking, the best way to do away with greed was, they thought, was to cultivate experiences of great pain. 04:17.909 --> 04:21.072 The opposite of pleasure, right? 04:23.754 --> 04:24.955 And if you're able to 04:28.580 --> 04:39.874 break through the stress and suffering of unpleasant experiences, then you'll somehow never want pleasant experiences again. 04:42.818 --> 04:53.271 I don't know what the psychology community would say about that today, but the Buddha found that practicing this for a long time, it didn't really work. 04:54.702 --> 05:06.874 And so he decided to change his way and find some third option, saying to himself, look, these two extreme practices, torturing yourself doesn't do anything. 05:08.296 --> 05:11.719 It doesn't make you a better person, not fundamentally. 05:16.304 --> 05:20.068 When I stop torturing myself, I still want things just as much as I did before. 05:22.748 --> 05:24.110 And so he found a third way. 05:24.150 --> 05:36.523 And that abandoning of the accepted practice disappointed these five monks, five recluses, five ascetics. 05:37.264 --> 05:37.965 And they left him. 05:39.066 --> 05:40.628 And he thought to himself, well, good riddance. 05:42.070 --> 05:47.896 So now it's a chance for me to devote myself to my own practice. 05:47.916 --> 05:49.498 Don't have to deal with these guys. 05:51.200 --> 06:10.305 But once he became a Buddha, once he became enlightened, found the right path, he thought of these five monks and he thought to teach them that they might readily understand his teachings. 06:11.416 --> 06:15.602 He was discouraged from teaching because he thought most people won't be able to understand. 06:15.682 --> 06:32.485 Most people are keen on sensual desires or keen on ambitions and are very much caught up in their own paths already. 06:32.566 --> 06:40.056 It's very difficult to understand what truly causes suffering and to 06:41.858 --> 06:44.942 take up the path that leads to freedom from suffering. 06:46.444 --> 06:49.307 Not an easy thing to do, even intellectually to accept it. 06:50.469 --> 06:52.671 So he was discouraged from teaching. 06:53.392 --> 07:02.043 But then he thought of certain people who might be able to understand and he thought of these five monks, five ascetics. 07:03.805 --> 07:05.487 And he went to find them and they were quite 07:08.015 --> 07:32.267 resistant hesitant to accept his teachings at first and then they realized that there was something different about him and he wasn't talking the way he used to talk he wasn't saying the same things he used to say he was claiming something that was if true was of great significance to them and so they thought well let's at least hear what he has to say 07:38.018 --> 07:44.888 And so then he taught the first discourse, the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta, and we've heard that Sutta. 07:45.268 --> 07:49.854 I can give another talk on it maybe some other time. 07:52.178 --> 08:01.631 As a result of that Sutta, one of the monks, Kondanya, and Kondanya was the court astrologer who predicted the Buddha would become a Buddha. 08:01.651 --> 08:03.774 He was the one who said there's only one path. 08:05.176 --> 08:06.017 He was that guy. 08:07.432 --> 08:15.984 And he became a Sotapanna, listening to the Buddha's teaching, which means he experienced briefly true freedom from suffering. 08:17.846 --> 08:18.868 And it changed him. 08:20.029 --> 08:23.714 So they call that Sotapanna. 08:23.734 --> 08:33.928 The other four ascetics spent a few days meditating, practicing, based on the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta. 08:35.680 --> 08:38.667 and then other teachings of the Buddha in the meantime. 08:40.230 --> 08:42.355 And each one of them became Sotapanna as well. 08:43.477 --> 08:49.470 So they were all able to experience the truth and change the way they looked at the world. 08:51.239 --> 08:54.946 And then after five days, the Buddha taught this second discourse. 08:54.966 --> 09:04.803 Now that introduction is useful to help us understand the context of this sutta, which happens to be somewhat important. 09:05.865 --> 09:12.377 The sutta isn't about views of self, the self, the soul. 09:12.437 --> 09:14.260 Do they exist? 09:16.501 --> 09:18.283 It isn't an intellectual sutta. 09:18.924 --> 09:21.426 It isn't meant to be studied or thought about. 09:23.448 --> 09:26.752 It's meant to be experienced. 09:27.873 --> 09:32.177 The audience were advanced meditators. 09:32.197 --> 09:38.524 They were what we call sekha, people who are in training. 09:38.544 --> 09:42.508 That is different from people who come to meditation practice and 09:44.615 --> 09:49.403 still have a great deal of skepticism or uncertainty. 09:50.845 --> 10:00.281 They still have a general lack of proficiency in the practice. 10:00.301 --> 10:01.022 So it's difficult. 10:02.064 --> 10:06.992 They might sit down to meditate and half of the time they're not actually meditating. 10:08.535 --> 10:10.318 Or they're practicing wrongly. 10:12.712 --> 10:21.446 And this is different from someone who has practiced the teaching and seen the results and becomes proficient at it. 10:24.330 --> 10:30.460 It's quite different from someone who has seen freedom from suffering. 10:30.480 --> 10:33.825 So for these ascetics, monks at that time, 10:37.940 --> 11:03.188 It was a clear understanding They had a clear understanding of their views Their views about reality were quite settled And so that's really what we have to deal with If we want to try and understand this sutta The first thing we have to do is settle our views And what I mean by that is Settle the way we look at the world 11:05.159 --> 11:11.588 That's the first important step in meditation practice, is to change the way we look at the world. 11:13.451 --> 11:21.102 And that might sound kind of vague or simplistic or imprecise. 11:22.304 --> 11:34.542 Precisely what I mean is, instead of looking at the world from the point of view of entities, people, places, things, this room that we're in, this body that I inhabit, 11:35.838 --> 11:43.025 possessions and so on, to look at the world from a point of view of experience. 11:44.066 --> 12:02.723 It's the first shift that a meditator undergoes that instead of thinking cerebrally about things, people, places and things, to have an experience of reality that's based on your experiences. 12:05.099 --> 12:07.963 So when we're sitting here, what is really happening? 12:09.906 --> 12:23.564 If we think of reality from a point of view of entities, we would say, well, I'm sitting in this room and you are all sitting in this room and the people watching on the internet are all sitting in their rooms. 12:24.486 --> 12:26.909 All of this is going on in my mind. 12:27.670 --> 12:29.132 I think these things. 12:33.128 --> 12:36.934 But from a point of view of experience, it's only the thoughts that are real. 12:38.276 --> 12:40.218 What's happening there is there are thoughts. 12:41.520 --> 12:44.905 Thoughts about people in this room, thoughts about people in their own rooms. 12:46.868 --> 12:48.531 And then there's the sound of my voice. 12:49.853 --> 12:54.800 And then there's the feeling of the cushion you're sitting on, or the chair that you're sitting on. 12:56.703 --> 13:01.650 There's the vision of light, color in the room. 13:02.879 --> 13:05.102 Maybe even there's smells or tastes. 13:08.327 --> 13:15.257 There's feelings in the body of pain and pleasure and there's heat and there's cold and there's hunger and there's thirst. 13:15.277 --> 13:16.018 These are real. 13:16.078 --> 13:18.181 These are experiences. 13:23.108 --> 13:26.693 So if you want to understand this sutta, the first thing you have to do 13:28.867 --> 13:43.953 is become accustomed or familiar with this way of looking at the world, the experience-based way, to see things based on your experiences. 13:44.414 --> 13:45.956 That's where meditation begins. 13:46.818 --> 13:50.925 Then you begin to be mindful of these experiences and try to understand 13:52.812 --> 14:05.413 the process of experience by which we experience something, then we react to it, and then we get caught up in it, and particularly how we suffer from it. 14:06.675 --> 14:13.487 When we get angry at something and how that causes us stress, when we worry about something and how that causes us stress. 14:17.534 --> 14:22.121 So it's really a specific way of looking at the world. 14:23.063 --> 14:27.430 And it's important because otherwise you can't really understand what the Buddha is talking about here. 14:28.311 --> 14:29.693 You misunderstand it, I think. 14:30.655 --> 14:32.137 You take this sutta in the wrong way. 14:34.721 --> 14:40.470 Because the Buddha is already talking about realities that 14:41.615 --> 14:47.081 discount the idea that there is a self or the question of whether there is a self. 14:47.141 --> 14:49.223 They move into a whole other realm. 14:49.263 --> 14:52.887 The Sutta never says there is no self, there is no soul. 14:52.967 --> 14:54.249 That's not what the Buddha is saying. 14:56.151 --> 14:57.693 I get in trouble for saying those things. 14:58.794 --> 15:04.240 Like I've said before, the Buddha never said there is no self. 15:04.400 --> 15:05.361 I've explained this. 15:06.725 --> 15:09.149 It's not that the Buddha believed in a self or a soul. 15:09.209 --> 15:12.213 It's that it's not the way the Buddha taught. 15:12.233 --> 15:17.421 It's not the way the Buddha looked at the world or encouraged people to look at the world. 15:18.242 --> 15:32.583 When you move away from this paradigm of people and places and things and start looking at the world based on your experiences, the question of a self is foreign. 15:34.826 --> 15:35.567 It's meaningless. 15:40.070 --> 15:43.073 So the sutta begins by talking about the five aggregates. 15:44.214 --> 15:45.616 The five aggregates. 15:48.399 --> 15:53.944 The five aggregates are an important Buddhist concept. 15:53.964 --> 15:59.851 They are the first noble truth. 15:59.871 --> 16:02.974 But basically they're the aspects of experience. 16:04.075 --> 16:06.938 So we're saying we're trying to look at reality 16:08.521 --> 16:10.263 as experiences. 16:11.125 --> 16:23.221 We're trying to look at our experiences, understand them, free ourselves from the stress and suffering that they can cause when we react poorly to our experiences. 16:26.626 --> 16:29.931 And so the five aggregates are what makes up an experience. 16:31.112 --> 16:31.873 That's all it's saying. 16:32.574 --> 16:35.338 The five aggregates are our rupa, first of all. 16:36.854 --> 16:39.577 Rupa is the physical aspect of experience. 16:41.939 --> 16:45.523 This is the feeling of hardness and softness of heat and cold. 16:48.726 --> 16:50.248 Number two is vedana. 16:50.268 --> 16:51.730 Vedana is the feelings. 16:52.190 --> 16:54.092 You feel pain or you feel pleasure. 16:54.152 --> 16:59.177 Happy, unhappy. 16:59.558 --> 17:01.139 This is number two. 17:02.541 --> 17:06.625 Number three is sanya, which means recognition or memory. 17:08.275 --> 17:12.899 Sanya is when you recognize something. 17:17.083 --> 17:30.435 So when you hear a noise and you say, that's a cricket, or you see something on the wall and you say, that's a picture, or when you read, you see words and you recognize letters and that kind of thing. 17:32.297 --> 17:33.838 This recognition that goes on. 17:34.899 --> 17:37.101 You hear a cat, you recognize it as a cat. 17:42.700 --> 17:47.165 Number four is sankara, which means our reactions to things. 17:47.725 --> 17:54.412 Mainly, sankara is a bit complicated, but to keep it simple, let's talk about our reactions to things. 17:54.452 --> 18:01.359 So sanya is when you react by saying, hey, that's a cat, but you haven't really put any value judgment on that. 18:03.962 --> 18:06.505 Sankara refers to those value judgments. 18:07.145 --> 18:08.927 And this is what's really of interest to us. 18:10.139 --> 18:17.030 We try to understand all aspects of experience, but what we really want to do is understand how it causes reaction. 18:18.472 --> 18:27.787 You like something, you dislike something, you appreciate something or depreciate something as beautiful or ugly, good or bad. 18:27.847 --> 18:31.914 This is where you say something is me or mine. 18:31.934 --> 18:37.783 And this is where this sutta tries to do its work. 18:40.868 --> 18:42.330 And the fifth is just vijnana. 18:42.370 --> 18:44.512 Vijnana is the consciousness. 18:45.173 --> 18:49.899 The fact that we experience it all is because we're conscious, our awareness of something. 18:51.341 --> 18:59.050 So with each experience there are these five aggregates or these five aspects. 18:59.871 --> 19:05.037 They come together and they make up the process of experience. 19:09.303 --> 19:38.280 Now the Buddha says that all these five things are non-self This is where he says anatta These five things are anatta What he's trying to do is get the monks to look at their experiences objectively So that instead of trying to change them, trying to control them 19:40.184 --> 19:46.792 instead of having expectations or ambitions or partialities. 19:51.639 --> 19:56.865 He's trying to help them see things clearly and let go. 19:56.885 --> 20:06.057 A big part of the reason that's trying to be addressed in this sutta of why we suffer 20:09.074 --> 20:10.877 It's because we have a sense of self. 20:11.017 --> 20:19.610 We have a sense that this is me who's experiencing and this is my experience. 20:22.835 --> 20:26.240 We have a sense of ownership that leads us to want to fix things. 20:28.203 --> 20:31.588 When we have pain we want to find some way to free ourselves from it. 20:33.560 --> 20:39.908 When we see things we don't like or hear things we don't like, we have a sense of trying to change them. 20:42.571 --> 20:55.527 Or when we see or hear or feel things that we like, we have a sense of identification that makes us want to keep, possess, continue them. 20:58.471 --> 21:00.934 We worry about them, we're afraid of them. 21:02.770 --> 21:07.718 When bad things come, we take it personally. 21:08.740 --> 21:10.002 This pain is my pain. 21:11.044 --> 21:12.346 It's not an intellectual thing. 21:12.366 --> 21:13.227 These aren't views. 21:14.169 --> 21:17.014 It's a visceral, it's called atasanya. 21:17.194 --> 21:19.578 It's not the view of self. 21:19.678 --> 21:21.141 It's the perception of self. 21:21.301 --> 21:26.770 It's this sort of visceral reaction. 21:28.977 --> 21:30.238 that clings to things. 21:31.179 --> 21:34.063 Buddha pointing out that clinging involves self. 21:40.330 --> 21:42.132 We don't really do what we think we do. 21:42.172 --> 21:46.377 We think that we experience things, we see something and, you know, that's seeing. 21:48.899 --> 21:53.044 What we do when we experience, what happens when we experience is we 21:54.509 --> 21:55.670 We cling to it. 21:56.411 --> 22:00.696 We interpret it or identify with it, interpret it as self. 22:06.523 --> 22:20.038 When we feel something, when we think something, we become enamored and attached to our thoughts and our feelings, or we become afraid or averse or frustrated or upset. 22:22.140 --> 22:22.761 We react. 22:30.740 --> 22:34.345 So what you see in meditation is what the Buddha is going to explain here. 22:34.365 --> 22:39.652 You start to see that these things that we're trying to control are not really under our control. 22:40.814 --> 22:47.984 To see that controlling them is not useful, is not beneficial. 22:49.326 --> 22:57.237 Trying to keep things or run away from experiences that our reactions are causing us suffering. 23:00.085 --> 23:02.568 He says these things are not ours. 23:05.752 --> 23:07.093 These things are not self. 23:08.275 --> 23:11.679 Basically what he's saying is you should start to look at these things a little bit differently. 23:16.465 --> 23:25.316 Because if they were, if it was proper to say these things are me and mine, then they wouldn't lead to suffering. 23:26.297 --> 23:28.219 They wouldn't lead to affliction, he says. 23:30.933 --> 23:32.395 Take form, for example. 23:33.216 --> 23:39.125 An exercise we give to meditators is to watch their stomach rising and falling. 23:39.806 --> 23:40.607 This is rupa. 23:40.647 --> 23:41.849 This is form, physical. 23:44.573 --> 23:49.120 When the stomach rises, you're aware of it rising. 23:49.140 --> 23:50.362 You say to yourself, rising. 23:50.382 --> 23:52.966 When it falls, you say falling. 23:52.986 --> 23:53.807 That seems simple. 23:53.827 --> 23:56.110 And the way we think of it is, well, okay, I'll watch it. 23:57.092 --> 23:58.594 Don't really understand why, but 23:59.958 --> 24:04.525 It will rise and it will fall and I will be aware of it rising and falling, but it's not really like that. 24:09.713 --> 24:14.881 And as a result of watching the stomach, we tend to feel quite uncomfortable after some time. 24:17.505 --> 24:22.793 Trying to control it, trying to keep it constant. 24:24.275 --> 24:30.281 our ordinary way of experiencing it is quite unpleasant, which should surprise us. 24:30.642 --> 24:36.608 And we think often that we're doing something wrong because it's a simple experience. 24:36.648 --> 24:37.649 It shouldn't be like that. 24:43.195 --> 24:52.425 I mean, we think we should, and the Buddha says we think we should be able to obtain, let it be so, let it not be so. 24:53.975 --> 24:55.316 We have expectations. 24:55.877 --> 25:04.025 It says, Let my form be thus, let my form not be thus. 25:06.848 --> 25:07.849 And the same with Vedana. 25:07.869 --> 25:18.160 We have pain, we think, well, I'll try my best to make the pain go away and bring only pleasure or calm. 25:20.637 --> 25:22.061 And we're frustrated by this. 25:22.703 --> 25:24.227 We find that it's not possible. 25:25.029 --> 25:36.199 We cling to the short periods of time where it is possible to experience calm or happiness and we get frustrated when we can't always be happy. 25:40.803 --> 25:47.209 and so on, our perceptions, especially our judgments. 25:48.210 --> 25:53.656 We want to always be pleased, we don't want to get angry, or we want to control our desires. 25:56.499 --> 26:01.344 We think of desire as ours, right? 26:01.484 --> 26:04.387 I like this, I like that, I don't like this, I don't like that. 26:04.427 --> 26:10.573 We go through our lives telling ourselves and each other what we like and dislike, thinking it's me and mine. 26:12.663 --> 26:18.569 But when we sit down and look at it, we come to see it's quite out of control, out of our control. 26:20.471 --> 26:22.493 What we like and dislike isn't really us. 26:24.054 --> 26:25.515 It's an affliction in many ways. 26:28.198 --> 26:30.380 We want something, we can't get it, we suffer. 26:30.440 --> 26:32.843 We don't want something, we get upset, we suffer. 26:35.785 --> 26:38.208 It's not the experiences, it's our reactions. 26:38.308 --> 26:42.552 We suffer because we like and dislike things. 26:44.354 --> 26:45.879 Because they're not under our control. 26:46.541 --> 26:53.785 We can't just like the things we have and dislike the things we don't have. 26:53.885 --> 26:57.958 Sometimes we get the things we don't like and don't get the things we like. 27:05.026 --> 27:06.007 That's the first section. 27:06.067 --> 27:09.451 He talks about these five things and explains them to be non-self. 27:09.491 --> 27:19.021 The second section is where he starts to explain what he means and his sort of evidence for this. 27:20.543 --> 27:28.992 And this relates not only to non-self but also to impermanence and suffering, the three characteristics. 27:33.089 --> 27:45.206 So he says, okay, well, maybe you don't believe me that these things are, maybe you think it's okay to identify with these things and maybe they really are me and mine. 27:45.887 --> 27:49.272 He says, but tell me, are they permanent or impermanent? 27:49.352 --> 27:51.115 Are they predictable or unpredictable? 27:53.778 --> 27:57.121 And again, he's talking to people who are meditating. 27:58.002 --> 27:59.984 So he's talking on the realm of experience. 28:01.225 --> 28:04.068 It's not something you should think about. 28:04.088 --> 28:07.952 It's something you should answer from your experience. 28:07.972 --> 28:12.096 This is a sort of a reporting session with the monks. 28:15.179 --> 28:16.040 He says, what do you think? 28:16.120 --> 28:18.223 Is form stable or unstable? 28:18.263 --> 28:19.684 Is it predictable or unpredictable? 28:22.769 --> 28:26.353 So it doesn't just mean that it does it arise and cease. 28:26.493 --> 28:28.336 It means, is it always the same? 28:28.396 --> 28:33.802 When you watch your stomach, is it always rising and falling the same? 28:35.084 --> 28:35.745 No, it's not. 28:39.269 --> 28:48.540 And because it's not predictable, because sometimes it's long, sometimes it's short, sometimes it's clear, sometimes it's unclear. 28:50.596 --> 28:51.877 Because of that, it's suffering. 28:52.318 --> 28:52.998 It's dukkha. 28:53.599 --> 28:56.862 And it's important to understand what he means by this. 28:56.882 --> 29:02.228 He doesn't mean that the unpredictability itself is stressful. 29:03.629 --> 29:07.913 He means it's not something that you can cling to and find happiness from. 29:07.953 --> 29:10.856 It's like a fire. 29:10.936 --> 29:11.897 A fire is hot. 29:12.117 --> 29:13.439 Well, a fire is not hot. 29:14.079 --> 29:15.861 But if you touch the fire, you get hot. 29:18.490 --> 29:21.514 So the stomach rising and falling is not stressful. 29:21.554 --> 29:23.097 There's nothing stressful about that. 29:24.799 --> 29:30.527 But if you cling to it and say, let my stomach be thus, let my stomach not be thus, you will suffer. 29:32.550 --> 29:33.572 Because it's unpredictable. 29:35.314 --> 29:39.140 Basically, a big part of the meditation is to make us more flexible. 29:40.482 --> 29:42.625 Life is unpredictable. 29:44.056 --> 29:49.965 A big part of why we suffer is because we're not in tune with the way things are. 29:51.346 --> 29:57.996 We look at the world in terms of what it should be, how we want it to be, what our expectations of it are. 29:59.959 --> 30:09.793 All caught up with ego and self and me and mine. 30:19.207 --> 30:22.911 And so he says, he explains it this way, he says they're unpredictable. 30:23.131 --> 30:26.955 Because they're unpredictable, you're only going to suffer when you cling to them. 30:26.975 --> 30:28.357 And so should you cling to them? 30:28.817 --> 30:34.864 Is it proper for you to say, this is mine, this I am, this is myself? 30:39.528 --> 30:42.271 Incidentally, these are the three ways we cling to things through. 30:43.092 --> 30:45.074 Etang mama means this is mine. 30:45.775 --> 30:48.538 So this is the aspect of self that is possessive. 30:50.088 --> 30:52.731 Something you experience, something you say, this is mine. 30:53.772 --> 30:59.118 Well, that's a problem, of course, because you're always going to be worried about keeping the things that are yours. 30:59.319 --> 31:09.871 People, places, things. 31:09.951 --> 31:10.652 This I am. 31:12.234 --> 31:14.576 When you identify with things, this is conceit. 31:16.358 --> 31:17.800 I am this, I am that. 31:19.805 --> 31:27.398 I am intelligent, I am handsome, I am wise, I am good, I am kind. 31:28.880 --> 31:35.271 Or conversely, I am ugly, I am mean, I am evil, I am useless, I am stupid. 31:39.378 --> 31:42.443 So much suffering, right, comes from identifying with things. 31:43.445 --> 31:45.508 No use or good comes from it. 31:47.227 --> 31:53.635 We're too caught up in ourselves in modern society, proclaiming who we are and what we are. 31:53.675 --> 31:58.822 It's a wonder that we think this is of any use. 31:59.863 --> 32:00.544 What good is it? 32:01.064 --> 32:02.706 What good is it to tell other people? 32:03.087 --> 32:09.555 You see people bragging about their accomplishments to others as though that we're going to ingratiate you with others. 32:11.645 --> 32:16.331 Sometimes we do it because we like the fear that it brings and the suffering that it brings to others. 32:17.532 --> 32:25.262 We're cruel enough to think that bragging about ourselves is going to, is a good thing. 32:25.903 --> 32:33.192 And the suffering that it causes for others when they fear us or feel threatened by us. 32:36.076 --> 32:37.618 It's a bully mentality really. 32:39.505 --> 32:40.827 our ego about who we are. 32:41.988 --> 32:43.990 Or maybe we want people to appreciate us. 32:44.090 --> 32:45.412 Hey, look at me, I'm this. 32:46.653 --> 32:48.756 We want people to think highly of us. 32:50.838 --> 32:52.200 Nothing good comes from it. 32:52.220 --> 32:57.546 What good could come from I am, I want, I like, I hate? 33:00.529 --> 33:08.078 This is one of the big, important philosophies of the Buddha, that I is no good. 33:11.247 --> 33:12.529 No good comes from I. 33:15.292 --> 33:20.318 It's an unbeneficial way of looking at the world. 33:20.919 --> 33:24.844 It's not about views, about is there a self, do I exist, do I not exist. 33:25.745 --> 33:27.327 The Buddha didn't answer these questions. 33:28.748 --> 33:30.430 He said it's about how you look at the world. 33:32.713 --> 33:36.618 When you see things, do you see things as they are or do you interpret them? 33:37.739 --> 33:38.660 Do you cling to them? 33:38.720 --> 33:40.022 Do you identify with them? 33:42.128 --> 33:48.676 And so the third aspect of clinging is esomeata, this is myself, which is views. 33:49.377 --> 33:53.241 So the first one, possessiveness, is in regards to craving. 33:54.122 --> 33:56.485 The second one is in regards to conceit. 33:56.685 --> 33:58.428 And the third one is in regards to views. 33:59.229 --> 34:04.635 Clinging, conceit, and views, or craving, conceit, and views. 34:04.695 --> 34:10.482 These are the three ways we cling to self or to things in general. 34:14.697 --> 34:16.675 The third part of the sutta is 34:18.241 --> 34:25.270 is a description of the course, the results of proper practice and proper observation. 34:25.290 --> 34:38.386 He says when you see things in this way, when you start to see that these things are not predictable, not a cause of satisfaction, stressful, you let go of them. 34:38.426 --> 34:41.169 You become disenchanted. 34:41.490 --> 34:45.615 The Buddha uses a word called Nibbida or Nibbindati. 34:47.215 --> 34:49.059 which he uses in many different places. 34:49.259 --> 34:54.249 He talks about this term again and again, which basically means you get tired of them. 34:57.876 --> 35:09.139 Whereas before you were so caught up in trying to fix your form and your feelings, your perceptions, your thought, your judgments. 35:10.047 --> 35:13.691 trying to fix reality, trying to control it. 35:14.212 --> 35:25.063 We have all these ambitions and goals and possessions, qualities about ourselves that we cling to. 35:25.103 --> 35:27.706 You get tired of it. 35:30.149 --> 35:39.379 When you do a meditation course, this is an important part of the course where you begin to tire of this whole repetitive 35:40.979 --> 35:51.558 process of clinging again and again, of craving again and again, judging, reacting again and again, suffering again and again. 35:54.403 --> 35:57.308 The way out of suffering is not to want to be free from suffering. 35:58.450 --> 36:02.818 Our desire to be free from suffering is often just aversion, it's just anger. 36:04.503 --> 36:07.888 Freedom from suffering comes from when you get tired of causing suffering. 36:09.070 --> 36:12.415 It's like those silly games that kids play. 36:13.316 --> 36:18.223 Why are you hitting yourself? 36:18.243 --> 36:19.986 Why are you hitting yourself? 36:20.006 --> 36:22.310 We begin to ask ourselves, why are we? 36:24.072 --> 36:27.918 Why are we causing ourselves suffering? 36:27.938 --> 36:30.021 You realize that it's not self. 36:31.705 --> 36:34.869 The suffering is a habit. 36:35.590 --> 36:40.718 It has a sort of inertia to it. 36:40.738 --> 36:46.005 It's gotten moving and now it's become unmanageable. 36:49.770 --> 36:56.700 You start to see that these actions, these activities, these reactions, these judgments are just a cause of suffering. 36:59.701 --> 37:00.662 And you disincline. 37:00.682 --> 37:04.367 This is how freedom works. 37:04.507 --> 37:19.025 Freedom comes about through getting fed up, through viscerally feeling how something causes you suffering and really getting it. 37:19.085 --> 37:24.392 It's a deep understanding, a penetrative understanding that this is what causes suffering. 37:36.539 --> 37:45.670 And the final thing the Buddha says is that when, basically he says, when you realize this, then you become free, to put it simply. 37:49.495 --> 37:59.307 And when he finished teaching the Anattalaka and the Sutta, the five monks all became Arahants, which means they freed themselves from all defilement. 38:01.818 --> 38:06.884 So it's important in summary to clearly understand this to be a meditation teaching. 38:06.924 --> 38:10.369 This is a teaching for people who are engaged deeply in meditation. 38:11.911 --> 38:21.463 Those of you who have done intensive courses or are in the process of taking them can understand and appreciate this, I think. 38:22.184 --> 38:31.335 This concept of how unmanageable and unwieldy experiences are and how really it's our 38:32.564 --> 38:59.652 our misperception of things as me as mine that has got us into this mess and every time you see things as being out of your control you're moving closer towards getting tired of them towards giving them up towards letting go that's really what this sutta is all about so 39:00.948 --> 39:02.070 Hope that was interesting. 39:02.130 --> 39:04.214 Hopefully it was useful. 39:06.318 --> 39:07.440 Thank you all for tuning in. 39:08.863 --> 39:09.464 Have a good night. 39:10.967 --> 39:19.362 I'll be answering questions as well if anyone has questions, so you can stay tuned for that if you like. 39:29.551 --> 39:31.073 Nine questions tonight. 39:34.498 --> 39:39.826 Sometimes I'm facing an issue and I cheat a little by using my meditation time to reflect on it. 39:42.610 --> 39:48.258 Try to break it down to clearly understand it and understand why it is affecting me negatively or positively. 39:49.560 --> 39:51.002 Is that a valid meditation? 39:55.015 --> 39:57.238 More like active meditation versus passive. 39:57.278 --> 39:59.561 Well, I can't answer this part of the question. 40:00.062 --> 40:05.249 Valid meditation doesn't mean anything because meditation could mean anything. 40:06.391 --> 40:12.019 When we talk about meditation, it's such a vague word, really. 40:13.701 --> 40:15.484 Do you mean like Descartes' meditation? 40:15.544 --> 40:19.269 There's many different kinds of meditation out there. 40:19.289 --> 40:21.512 It's an important thing that people don't really think about. 40:23.720 --> 40:29.909 I only teach one type of meditation, mainly, really. 40:31.111 --> 40:34.455 So I can't really answer that. 40:34.515 --> 40:36.198 It's not what I teach to do. 40:37.420 --> 40:49.677 If you want me to answer what is that likely to lead to, I would say because it's not... 40:51.277 --> 41:12.171 it's not particularly based on mindfulness that you're more likely to be to be plagued by judgments and reactions when you reflect upon a thought it's a useful practice it can be a useful practice at times 41:14.193 --> 41:17.798 but it's not going to replace meditation practice. 41:17.818 --> 41:22.605 And you can understand this when we talk about the second part of your question. 41:23.927 --> 41:28.634 You say, when I just repeat the mantra, disliking, disliking, the issue keeps arising. 41:28.654 --> 41:32.940 It seems like my mind is screaming for an interpretation versus a passive observation. 41:34.362 --> 41:35.644 Okay, so... 41:36.738 --> 41:42.907 This is what we expect to see. 41:43.768 --> 41:47.754 This is not a sign that your practice is going wrong. 41:47.774 --> 41:52.881 This is a sign that reality is not under your control. 41:53.983 --> 42:03.977 When you say disliking, disliking, and the issue keeps arising, what you're seeing is what we just talked about in this Anattalakana Sutta, that it's not under your control. 42:03.957 --> 42:27.265 that you're not in charge that it doesn't turn off just because you want it to go away that's what we're trying to see if the issue keeps coming back enough again and again and you keep staying objective as you say passive passively observing it eventually you're going to get fed up with it you're going to say look this is just making me suffer again and again and again 42:29.000 --> 42:30.363 We want it to come up again. 42:30.404 --> 42:32.609 We're not trying to get rid of the problem. 42:33.391 --> 42:35.035 We're trying to understand the problem. 42:37.060 --> 42:41.431 And when you understand it clearly enough, your mind will change. 42:41.532 --> 42:44.038 You'll cease to react in the ways that you 42:45.959 --> 42:50.745 you ordinarily react, because you'll see they're just causing me suffering again and again. 42:51.365 --> 43:00.016 So the unfortunate truth is, from our perspective, to free yourself from something, you really have to go through it over the long term. 43:00.056 --> 43:04.120 You have to go through the issue, experience it again and again. 43:04.220 --> 43:05.482 There's no quick fix. 43:06.824 --> 43:08.946 Looking for a quick fix, trying to 43:10.900 --> 43:18.927 Fix your problems when you talk about this active sort of practice of trying to find out what's wrong. 43:21.049 --> 43:23.531 It just leads to the habit of trying to fix things. 43:24.592 --> 43:26.133 That habit is problematic. 43:26.634 --> 43:30.297 You'll never get tired or disenchanted or turn away or let go. 43:31.358 --> 43:34.721 Because you'll always be trying to make things better. 43:37.683 --> 43:39.625 It's not the way we normally look at things, but 43:41.528 --> 43:47.173 I think that's a good thing because the way we look at things obviously normally isn't working. 43:52.518 --> 43:57.222 I'm not going to answer this one because it deals with other people. 43:57.523 --> 44:00.185 If you want to ask it more generally, go ahead. 44:01.106 --> 44:05.190 I'm not going to comment on other people's practice. 44:05.210 --> 44:07.151 Is there a difference between wanting and liking? 44:07.332 --> 44:08.953 Do both of them come under craving? 44:10.553 --> 44:10.893 Right. 44:10.913 --> 44:14.317 So we had this question before, actually, recently, I think. 44:17.841 --> 44:21.384 And no, there isn't a difference. 44:21.404 --> 44:22.706 We look at it differently. 44:22.866 --> 44:35.279 But see, the point is that technically, technically, you experience something, and then there's a reaction to that experience. 44:36.581 --> 44:38.923 And then there's the drive to do something about it. 44:40.118 --> 44:41.582 So it's always going to be the same. 44:42.204 --> 44:48.703 But when we look at it from a sort of a wider sense, we have a sense, well, this is liking and this is wanting. 44:49.947 --> 44:54.600 But it's always going to be a combination of both. 44:55.897 --> 45:00.009 Or it's two parts of the same process. 45:00.972 --> 45:04.642 The liking aspect of it is in regards to the experience. 45:05.505 --> 45:10.800 The wanting aspect is in regards to the process of doing something about it. 45:12.434 --> 45:13.796 It's how it appears to us. 45:14.838 --> 45:23.851 But the moment of liking or wanting, of what we call craving, I suppose, is the reaction to the experience. 45:23.911 --> 45:25.794 And so basically it's just an excitement. 45:26.334 --> 45:34.226 It's a stress of sorts, where you get stressed about the experience positively. 45:34.266 --> 45:36.990 It's a positive stress we call eustress or something. 45:38.371 --> 45:41.634 Instead of just calmly experiencing it, you get excited. 45:42.916 --> 45:43.957 It triggers something. 45:44.037 --> 45:52.585 And that trigger, in some cases we call it liking because it's a positive, or in some cases we call it disliking because it's negative. 45:53.746 --> 45:55.408 Some things excite us negatively. 45:58.411 --> 46:00.313 But either way, it's technically the same. 46:00.954 --> 46:03.216 It's a description of the same process. 46:03.236 --> 46:07.180 It's just there's different qualities based on many other factors. 46:11.564 --> 46:14.788 How are we able to practice metta without craving or desire? 46:17.771 --> 46:22.115 Well, an enlightened being just naturally cultivates metta. 46:22.136 --> 46:24.438 I mean, not all of them do and not all the time. 46:26.120 --> 46:30.485 But no, it doesn't require desire or craving to be loving. 46:32.507 --> 46:38.213 Love is just a natural expression of the mind and something that is appropriate 46:39.391 --> 46:42.475 appropriate at certain times, and it's innocent. 46:43.377 --> 46:45.820 So it's a part of the mind that isn't eradicated. 46:47.162 --> 46:54.793 An enlightened being does away with many different qualities because they come to understand that they're unbeneficial. 46:55.374 --> 46:58.839 Love and compassion, these don't cease. 47:01.543 --> 47:08.453 And it's certainly possible to have them mixed up, where love and desire are mixed. 47:09.361 --> 47:19.613 You love someone, but you also, well, for example, you want to love them, or you, I mean, more like you want them to love you back, usually. 47:21.255 --> 47:22.516 You want them to be near you. 47:23.898 --> 47:28.183 You want them to be happy, for example. 47:28.203 --> 47:32.348 If you really want someone to be happy, that's problematic, and I think that's what you're getting at. 47:33.129 --> 47:36.593 We say, may you be happy, and it's like, hey, doesn't that mean you want them to be happy? 47:38.415 --> 47:39.216 Not exactly. 47:41.356 --> 47:51.567 It's a problem with the word want because when we say, may you be happy, we're just expressing a friendliness. 47:52.828 --> 47:55.992 In love, it's not really a, I want you to be happy. 47:57.473 --> 48:04.721 It's not like when you say, hey, if I say to you a good day, it doesn't mean that I'm going to be upset when you don't have a good day. 48:04.961 --> 48:07.544 I'm not going to worry or ask you, did you have a good day? 48:08.445 --> 48:09.426 And be upset about it. 48:10.367 --> 48:11.228 It's a wish. 48:11.427 --> 48:13.709 It's what we do when we greet anyone. 48:14.010 --> 48:15.551 When you say to someone, oh, good day to you. 48:17.133 --> 48:22.558 It's not that I want in that sense. 48:23.899 --> 48:31.167 It's an expression of friendliness. 48:35.751 --> 48:39.595 And it's a limitation of language that it sounds like a desire. 48:43.726 --> 48:46.950 Could you explain the relationship between sati and sanya? 48:48.913 --> 48:56.243 When you've noted the beginning of anger many times, the next time anger arises, one gets knowing here comes the anger. 48:56.283 --> 48:59.267 Sounds like this knowing quality is based on past observations. 49:09.181 --> 49:09.261 Hmm. 49:16.058 --> 49:45.593 I don't really know what to say there's no relationship so I guess that is a relationship what happens as you're mindful you gain a certain amount of what we might call sanya an awareness of how things are how your mind works which you can call sanya but I don't know what else you want me to say about it 49:47.463 --> 49:49.486 It sounds like you're doing quite well. 49:49.506 --> 49:51.590 I mean, that's a good thing to see. 49:51.710 --> 49:55.556 As you're more mindful, you get to see how your mind works. 49:55.636 --> 49:56.978 You come to see more clearly. 49:58.040 --> 50:00.985 Yes, this is how anger comes. 50:01.065 --> 50:02.227 This is what causes anger. 50:02.868 --> 50:05.312 Also seeing, hey, what is the result of being angry? 50:06.333 --> 50:08.096 When I'm angry, it causes me suffering. 50:10.801 --> 50:11.682 So, good for you. 50:14.716 --> 50:18.583 Is there a force or energy that makes people like us more since we meditate? 50:22.029 --> 50:32.569 Yeah, I think you generally, it's arguable that you become more attractive as you meditate because you're more kind and peaceful and you have a bright complexion, I think. 50:33.791 --> 50:38.800 When you meditate, it makes you in some ways beautiful, let's say. 50:40.788 --> 50:50.961 So then your question, if people come, insist to meet you, but it keeps you away from your practice, how should you keep going without being rude to people, right? 50:51.001 --> 50:54.526 So it attracts people, it attracts unwanted attention. 50:56.628 --> 50:57.409 It's a good question. 50:58.170 --> 50:59.812 And it's a problem that you're going to have. 50:59.852 --> 51:08.263 The further you go in meditation, the more the people that are connected with you are going to want to engage with you. 51:08.969 --> 51:13.937 Not even just for the reason that you become more attractive, if that's even a thing. 51:15.900 --> 51:22.871 But also just because of your relationship with them. 51:22.891 --> 51:26.697 You're going to have to interact with people. 51:26.797 --> 51:30.363 And as you pull away, that triggers something in them. 51:31.805 --> 51:36.192 People see that you are no longer engaging. 51:37.403 --> 51:39.847 It intrigues them and it pulls them in. 51:40.428 --> 51:44.194 We might say it triggers your karmic relationship with them. 51:45.836 --> 51:53.168 You're pulling away and you have to deal with the karma that you have with this person. 51:54.310 --> 51:56.353 So you might say you have to deal with it more quickly. 51:58.076 --> 52:01.521 It comes more quickly to a head because of the practice. 52:05.703 --> 52:06.705 So what to do about it? 52:06.765 --> 52:08.829 Well, consider it part of your practice. 52:10.872 --> 52:13.477 Other people shouldn't be an obstacle to your practice. 52:13.497 --> 52:18.025 They have to become a part of your path to enlightenment. 52:18.065 --> 52:19.307 How you deal with other people. 52:19.407 --> 52:20.209 Are you mindful? 52:21.151 --> 52:22.513 How you interact with them? 52:34.762 --> 52:36.870 I still have a question about reincarnation. 52:36.890 --> 52:44.198 If we are all born again, how can it be that mankind has more than five-fold over the last hundred years? 52:50.860 --> 52:51.301 Right. 52:51.821 --> 52:56.968 Well, 5 billion, 6 billion, 7 billion people isn't really that many beings. 52:59.671 --> 53:01.634 I think there are a lot more animals than that. 53:02.114 --> 53:09.784 So the number of animals that have become humans is probably a great part of that. 53:10.706 --> 53:11.967 But there are also other realms. 53:12.047 --> 53:16.513 There are heavenly realms, there are hell realms, and there's a lot of movement. 53:18.333 --> 53:31.396 So whether you believe in reincarnation or not, or rebirth or not, it's not really a valid, it's not really an important, it's not a challenge to it. 53:36.485 --> 53:40.813 When we do mental noting, does it fully fulfill the instruction Pajanati? 53:44.827 --> 53:55.022 Not entirely, but it's the process of, it's the relationship between sati and panya. 53:55.142 --> 53:58.347 Sati is this process of recognizing, remembering. 53:59.969 --> 54:10.024 So when you say to yourself, itching, itching, for example, or when you feel pain and you say pain, pain, it brings about the panya, the wisdom. 54:11.962 --> 54:14.426 Because once you do that, then you see it as it is. 54:15.187 --> 54:20.696 Your awareness of the experience is objective, it's mindful, it's clear. 54:22.038 --> 54:23.360 And that's the Pajanati. 54:23.380 --> 54:25.183 It comes about because of the noting. 54:30.431 --> 54:34.217 The statues of Mahavira often look similar to the statues of Buddha. 54:36.581 --> 54:39.606 Are there parallels or strong differences between the two? 54:43.670 --> 54:48.959 Yeah, the Mahavira plays a big part in the Pali Canon. 54:48.979 --> 54:58.275 There's lots of stories about the Buddha and his encounters with Niganta Nataputta is what he was called, what the Buddhists called him. 54:59.617 --> 55:01.360 Nataputta was his family name. 55:01.400 --> 55:05.627 Niganta was a name for the giants. 55:09.725 --> 55:11.108 So there were similar teachings. 55:11.188 --> 55:13.353 The Jains were more extreme. 55:13.373 --> 55:21.051 They believed that in order to be completely harmless, 55:22.280 --> 55:25.685 you had to really stop doing anything. 55:26.947 --> 55:28.008 Eventually stop eating. 55:28.029 --> 55:33.917 The best practice was to just starve yourself, because otherwise you were in danger of harming. 55:33.937 --> 55:36.281 You have to sweep in front of you, this kind of thing. 55:37.402 --> 55:38.825 They went naked, some of them. 55:38.845 --> 55:42.550 I'm not quite sure why. 55:45.719 --> 55:47.281 They were very careful when they ate. 55:47.321 --> 55:54.270 They would look through the food to make sure there were no living beings, insects had fallen into it. 55:54.350 --> 55:56.413 They had to be very careful about everything. 55:56.473 --> 56:04.944 They weren't allowed to boil water because boiling water killed the beings that were potentially in it, that kind of thing. 56:04.964 --> 56:10.191 So it's a different, it's just another one of the many philosophies that were around at the time of the Buddha. 56:14.795 --> 56:15.921 And that's all the questions. 56:18.253 --> 56:19.440 Thank you all for tuning in. 56:19.520 --> 56:20.063 Have a good night.