1 00:00:01,685 --> 00:00:07,751 There's a question, if a monk is not allowed to touch money, what happens to the money that people pay for retreats? 2 00:00:11,015 --> 00:00:11,976 Anyone, anyone? 3 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:20,685 Well, you don't have to pay when you come here for a retreat. 4 00:00:21,346 --> 00:00:22,407 You can't pay. 5 00:00:22,547 --> 00:00:25,630 You can't pay, it's technically not paying, never paying. 6 00:00:26,051 --> 00:00:28,013 When you come here you can give a donation, 7 00:00:28,195 --> 00:00:31,579 You're allowed to give a donation if you want to, we're not asking for it now. 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:44,033 Money that we receive here is being used either for construction, renovation, things that have to be bought so that meditation can take place here. 9 00:00:45,615 --> 00:00:51,802 And we have here someone, a steward who is actually taking care of our money affairs. 10 00:00:53,404 --> 00:00:56,768 So monks don't touch money here, that's correct. 11 00:00:58,418 --> 00:01:12,260 I wrote a couple of blog posts on this issue because we were having difficulty with the idea of continuing to run a meditation center. 12 00:01:14,003 --> 00:01:16,407 Most monks don't run meditation centers. 13 00:01:17,569 --> 00:01:25,742 The majority will have a monastic center, a monastery, and most of the residents will be monks and they will just go off and do their own thing. 14 00:01:25,722 --> 00:01:36,400 But here we're trying to move things a little bit more globally and more universally available. 15 00:01:37,041 --> 00:01:45,434 So running a meditation center and allowing people to come for a week or a month and then leave, it creates some difficulty. 16 00:01:45,555 --> 00:01:48,199 You need to have extra food for the meditators. 17 00:01:48,259 --> 00:01:49,401 You need to have 18 00:01:49,381 --> 00:02:02,412 water and facilities because sometimes they will fly from another country and they've only got just enough time to do the course so you can't expect them to prepare or to 19 00:02:02,932 --> 00:02:09,428 to develop and to fit in with the monastic lifestyle. 20 00:02:09,448 --> 00:02:11,553 You can't expect them to go on alms round and so on. 21 00:02:11,734 --> 00:02:15,964 They don't have the time to study and to ordain and so on. 22 00:02:15,984 --> 00:02:19,573 So you have to have a room ready for them, food ready for them, 23 00:02:19,553 --> 00:02:26,882 and everything available for them to allow them the time to develop. 24 00:02:29,125 --> 00:02:30,787 And that takes resources. 25 00:02:32,329 --> 00:02:41,460 The resources can't come naturally where you just receive whatever food that is available from the local community. 26 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:48,047 So the use of money really makes that possible. 27 00:02:48,127 --> 00:02:54,134 Without any money in the monastery, it's just a timing thing really, right? 28 00:02:54,154 --> 00:03:04,345 Because we have the patience, we can bring water up from the river and we can live with whatever clothes, whatever food that we have. 29 00:03:04,405 --> 00:03:10,992 We can go hungry or not eat for one day or so on and our practice will recover in the next days. 30 00:03:10,972 --> 00:03:27,801 But for the meditators coming, for the meditation center, we need things when they're needed to make a meditator's practice really fruitful. 31 00:03:27,861 --> 00:03:33,992 They have to have the resources on hand when they arrive. 32 00:03:34,782 --> 00:03:40,073 So money is kind of the simplest answer to that problem. 33 00:03:41,355 --> 00:03:42,998 And for that reason we have a steward. 34 00:03:43,038 --> 00:03:44,281 So normally we wouldn't need that. 35 00:03:44,301 --> 00:03:49,872 We wouldn't need someone, a treasurer actually, using money or a bank account or so on. 36 00:03:49,852 --> 00:03:53,997 The point is that the monks are still on the monastic side. 37 00:03:54,077 --> 00:04:01,146 It's just that we have lay people involved and we have an organization that includes lay people simply because we're running a meditation center. 38 00:04:01,186 --> 00:04:05,652 It has nothing to do with buying things for the monks or necessities for the monks. 39 00:04:05,732 --> 00:04:08,155 It's buying things for the meditation center. 40 00:04:08,195 --> 00:04:11,860 So the monastic life really still has very little to do with money. 41 00:04:12,901 --> 00:04:18,829 It's not like the donations that come are for the purpose of buying stuff for the monks. 42 00:04:18,809 --> 00:04:20,435 Not directly, anyway. 43 00:04:20,455 --> 00:04:29,427 I mean, obviously, things that the monks use to teach and so on, and things to allow the monks the ability to teach, it's going to be paid for. 44 00:04:31,094 --> 00:04:32,797 But there are laypeople involved. 45 00:04:33,077 --> 00:04:37,585 And the reason there are laypeople involved is basically because we're running a meditation center. 46 00:04:37,605 --> 00:04:49,066 So we have one layman who's our official treasurer, and he looks after receiving and using donations that arrive. 47 00:04:52,912 --> 00:04:54,435 So go on, explain that again. 48 00:04:54,736 --> 00:05:13,923 I was just saying that it's actually part of the Buddhist ideals to not ask for a payment for meditation, for any teachings, that actually they work on dana, on donation, which is how much you want to give, not some set amount of money. 49 00:05:14,765 --> 00:05:20,052 And that when I was looking into meditation retreats in my home country in England, 50 00:05:20,032 --> 00:05:27,223 There were many centers that asked for quite a steep payment, not donation, and it was set. 51 00:05:28,024 --> 00:05:37,298 And these places actually, when I looked into them, turned out to be not really in line with Buddhist ideals and not really somewhere I would recommend. 52 00:05:37,338 --> 00:05:42,225 So if someone's asking for a payment, I would be slightly suspicious. 53 00:05:42,391 --> 00:05:47,860 And so what I was saying is that we're actually trying to go one step further. 54 00:05:49,623 --> 00:05:53,429 Because the understanding that I have of a donation is that it's from someone who wants to give. 55 00:05:53,469 --> 00:05:55,853 That person has the intention to give. 56 00:05:56,173 --> 00:06:01,782 And it may be because they want to give up. 57 00:06:02,303 --> 00:06:04,787 They have some resources that they want to... 58 00:06:04,767 --> 00:06:09,032 see used in a certain way. 59 00:06:10,293 --> 00:06:17,801 They want to see the cultivation of this or that, and so they ask to enhance the meditation center. 60 00:06:18,002 --> 00:06:30,235 There may not be a need by the meditation center, but they think, hey, could I build another kuti and allow you to have another meditator come, because I really want to see this progress. 61 00:06:30,215 --> 00:06:33,920 So they want to expand things because they have resources. 62 00:06:34,340 --> 00:06:36,403 And the other one is because there may be a need. 63 00:06:37,024 --> 00:06:50,822 So someone might hear that the meditation center needs electricity, for example, or maybe the water pump is broken and they want to donate a water pump because there's a need. 64 00:06:50,802 --> 00:07:00,673 It should not be, from my point of view, that we expect a donation from any meditator, or that we expect our donations should come from meditators. 65 00:07:00,753 --> 00:07:14,548 The donation should come from whatever person appreciates the things that we do, has the resources, and either sees the need or the usefulness, 66 00:07:14,528 --> 00:07:18,814 usefulness of their donation, of their resources. 67 00:07:19,555 --> 00:07:22,840 And this is what I was talking about in regards to the free lunch idea. 68 00:07:23,661 --> 00:07:33,294 A free lunch is, they say there's no such thing as a free lunch, but I think that's exactly what is being explained here, is that you give something because it needs to be given. 69 00:07:33,314 --> 00:07:39,743 The Buddha didn't go out and teach because of his expectation of getting anything in return, or 70 00:07:39,723 --> 00:07:43,888 exactly the idea that he would gain something from it. 71 00:07:43,928 --> 00:07:44,809 He was fully enlightened. 72 00:07:45,450 --> 00:07:47,873 He had no need for merit. 73 00:07:47,893 --> 00:07:49,295 He had no need for good karma. 74 00:07:49,315 --> 00:07:54,701 He had no need for anything and wouldn't gain anything from it because he was already where he needed to be. 75 00:07:55,342 --> 00:07:56,303 And yet he still taught. 76 00:07:56,344 --> 00:08:01,630 So this was his giving a free lunch to people, giving people free teachings. 77 00:08:01,610 --> 00:08:09,899 because there was a need, because there was a benefit, and because there was the invitation and the request. 78 00:08:11,841 --> 00:08:14,204 And I think that's really what we're doing here. 79 00:08:14,224 --> 00:08:21,071 So the people who would give to the Buddha, the point would be that they were giving because there was the need. 80 00:08:21,111 --> 00:08:26,837 The Buddha needed the food to continue teaching, or you could even say needed the food to survive. 81 00:08:27,298 --> 00:08:29,440 And this is how people do it with Buddhist monks. 82 00:08:29,420 --> 00:08:36,128 they may have their ideas of what they're going to get in return, but ultimately it comes down to the fact that the monk needs food to continue. 83 00:08:36,168 --> 00:08:39,431 The people need teachings to practice. 84 00:08:40,012 --> 00:08:51,224 And so you give according to the need, you don't give according to the reciprocity of expecting something in return, or even expecting that that person will pay it forward. 85 00:08:51,365 --> 00:08:53,667 So I was looking at these three models. 86 00:08:54,368 --> 00:08:56,110 One is where you expect something in return. 87 00:08:56,911 --> 00:08:58,853 Two is you expect that person to 88 00:08:58,833 --> 00:09:05,862 continue the giving, so to expect them to give something to someone else, the pay it forward idea. 89 00:09:06,443 --> 00:09:08,225 And three is that you don't expect anything at all. 90 00:09:08,265 --> 00:09:24,886 You give because there's a need, because there's a request, or even just because there's a benefit to be gained, or there's a beneficence, there's a benefit to be accrued by the gift for the person who receives it. 91 00:09:25,727 --> 00:09:27,269 And I think this is really how it goes. 92 00:09:27,329 --> 00:09:28,671 So 93 00:09:28,651 --> 00:09:33,237 If anyone wants to give a donation to our organization, they're of course welcome to. 94 00:09:33,597 --> 00:09:38,683 Whatever the donation is, if it's an object, then we'll use it for the purpose that it was intended. 95 00:09:38,763 --> 00:09:55,924 If it's a monetary donation, then the treasurer and the lay organization will take it and we'll use it to pay for, as Jessa said, construction, and we'll use it to pay for maybe juice for the meditators, or oats, or whatever things are necessary. 96 00:09:55,904 --> 00:10:02,974 But it really should be on an intention basis. 97 00:10:03,635 --> 00:10:17,835 So to relate this back to your question, really the point is that if we have resources, if there is money, then it will be used by the laypeople. 98 00:10:17,955 --> 00:10:24,645 And if there's a need, then the monks will request this or that from the laypeople, and the laypeople will use the money to acquire that. 99 00:10:24,625 --> 00:10:29,951 If there is no money, then what is the answer? 100 00:10:29,991 --> 00:10:31,633 The answer is that we stop. 101 00:10:31,914 --> 00:10:33,295 We stop doing what we're doing. 102 00:10:33,435 --> 00:10:39,623 If we have no money, then we go back to our alms round and we just have no meditators come. 103 00:10:41,325 --> 00:10:45,069 But when money comes, it is kind of really answered that. 104 00:10:45,109 --> 00:10:52,017 It's used by the lay people, but mostly, as I said, for the meditation center. 105 00:10:54,072 --> 00:11:02,583 Okay, so actually quite a comprehensive answer to many questions that weren't even asked. 106 00:11:02,663 --> 00:11:05,112 All in all, in regards to money and 107 00:11:06,509 --> 00:11:24,973 Miriam also mentioned that where she is in Mexico the places are asking for payment and I just say if places are asking for a set payment to maybe research more and try to find somewhere that isn't asking for a set payment because 108 00:11:24,953 --> 00:11:31,164 If somewhere is really in line with Buddhism, then they're not going to ask you for a set payment. 109 00:11:32,146 --> 00:11:34,771 I mean, in my experience, the same. 110 00:11:34,831 --> 00:11:39,559 I mean, there is something, there is an exception to that. 111 00:11:40,241 --> 00:11:43,266 And that is that 112 00:11:44,309 --> 00:11:51,947 In Western countries, I mean, the whole point is that then there is the desire to run a course. 113 00:11:52,007 --> 00:11:57,981 And once you have the desire to run a course, then of course you need money to make it work. 114 00:11:59,918 --> 00:12:07,551 But if the center is run by laypeople, then they can agree amongst themselves that everyone pitch in. 115 00:12:08,573 --> 00:12:10,777 And in that sense, you could think of it as a pitching in. 116 00:12:11,999 --> 00:12:18,450 There's the requirement for everyone has to eat food, and so you need enough food. 117 00:12:18,430 --> 00:12:21,636 You need enough food for each person. 118 00:12:21,716 --> 00:12:37,266 So you can say one way of simplifying that is to have everyone give a set amount for the food for the day and then you need to rent the place and since you don't have a sponsor to rent the place then everyone has to pay something for the room and so on. 119 00:12:37,246 --> 00:12:50,526 And often that's what the payment is for, that it's just because of exorbitant, you know, they find a resort or something and do a meditation course and you're paying resort prices, not to the organization, but because everyone has to pitch in. 120 00:12:50,586 --> 00:12:58,598 And yeah, you might be paying a little bit to the organization for their clerical work and even for salaries for certain people and so on. 121 00:12:58,698 --> 00:13:05,088 And so then it really depends on what are the intentions of the people, because there are pretty serious expenses. 122 00:13:05,128 --> 00:13:06,730 I mean, even we have expenses, so... 123 00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:16,363 Our model is this way because we are... I think because we have that one extra element of not really caring. 124 00:13:16,403 --> 00:13:18,406 If we don't have enough money we'll just shut down. 125 00:13:18,446 --> 00:13:21,811 So we're not really doing it out of desire. 126 00:13:21,851 --> 00:13:25,996 We're doing it because there are people who want to come and people who are supporting. 127 00:13:26,097 --> 00:13:29,842 It's because the people are donating money that we are continuing doing what we're doing. 128 00:13:30,282 --> 00:13:31,704 That's how I put it out there. 129 00:13:31,724 --> 00:13:32,245 It was like... 130 00:13:32,225 --> 00:13:42,337 If it comes down to it, then we'll just have to stop what we do and we'll go back to just running a monastery and not a meditation center. 131 00:13:42,938 --> 00:13:45,120 So you might say that it's missing that element. 132 00:13:46,802 --> 00:13:55,212 But I think you could come up with some situation where it was just we all want to practice meditation and so we all have to pitch in as lay people.