1
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There's a question, is it against the Vinaya to put all of your worldly belongings in someone else's trust and become a monk for five years?

2
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The understanding being if one decides to remain in the order, the property will go to that person.

3
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Or if one disrobes, one can resume lay life.

4
00:00:23,662 --> 00:00:25,886
Good question.

5
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Go for it.

6
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It's not against the words, it's probably not against the letter, but probably against the sense.

7
00:00:54,731 --> 00:00:58,835
Probably against the meaning of what the rules are for.

8
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It's kind of like retroactively breaking the rule.

9
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It's like, suppose I say to Tarindu, I say, Tarindu, when I become a monk, I want you to kill my preceptor so that I can do what I want.

10
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Because once my preceptor is dead, I don't have to stay with him, I don't have to listen to him, right?

11
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And then I ordain.

12
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If Tarinda goes and kills that person, have I committed a parajika?

13
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Because killing people is, of course, against the Vinaya to the extent that you're no longer a monk.

14
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So the question is, am I still a monk if he goes and kills my preceptor?

15
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Well, according to the letter of the Vinaya, yes, I am still a monk because I didn't do it after I ordained.

16
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But does it make it any better of a need?

17
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Does it make it at all different?

18
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Yeah, you could argue that a monk committing an offense is more heinous, or the fact that you did it in monk's robes makes it a lot worse.

19
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But it's certainly not correct.

20
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So the point being, well, money affairs is not unwholesome like killing.

21
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But it's still a mockery, making a mockery, sort of in a sense, of the monastic life.

22
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I think you have to say it is making a mockery of the monastic life.

23
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It's trying to circumvent the rules, really.

24
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You say, oh, I know I can't use money when I become a monk, so I'll...

25
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I'll give money to someone and I'll say, okay, every month you have to make a contract with me that every month you're going to give me a thousand dollars.

26
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Or no, you're going to give me, not every month, every day you're going to give me food.

27
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Or you go to Pizza Hut, for example, and you say to them, you know, I want to write a contract with you that every day for the rest of my life you're going to send me pizza to my monastery.

28
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And you're not breaking any rule by doing that.

29
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You're not a monk yet.

30
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When you ordain, you're not breaking any rule.

31
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But the reason why you're doing that with them is because you know you won't be able to do that once you're a monk.

32
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So it's making a mockery of the rule.

33
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The rule is not for the purpose of making it difficult for you to get what you want.

34
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It's for the purpose of helping you to let go of wanting and let go of clinging.

35
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Because what you're saying here is that you want to ordain but still cling.

36
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You want to give up the world without actually giving it up.

37
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Or like give it up but keep one hand in the pot.

38
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Which is totally un...

39
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improper so so I think I would have to say that it's it's improper for that reason because it's missing the whole point of the rules it's it's it's making a mockery of the rules it's turning the rules into just a nuisance rather than a tool so

40
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I was surprised by the end of the question.

41
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I didn't read it, so I thought it was just going to be, if I set up a fund so that if I need anything I can get it from these people.

42
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That's one question that we often have to ask.

43
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If I set up a fund for these people in case as a monk I get sick or so on, is that wrong?

44
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But here it's even worse because you're thinking with the intention that in five years I might be able to go back to the home life.

45
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That's not giving up the world at all, really.

46
00:04:53,588 --> 00:05:01,680
Yes, it is, and it's a good intention that you have, but I would say it's not sufficient.

47
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Becoming a monk is a really serious thing.

48
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It's not something that we should take lightly.

49
00:05:06,887 --> 00:05:09,972
It's not something that can come lightly or can come easily.

50
00:05:10,653 --> 00:05:16,401
Any little attachment that you have will come back to haunt you a thousandfold once you've ordained.

51
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It will even get in the way of your ordaining.

52
00:05:20,848 --> 00:05:22,330
Palanyani, for example, before...

53
00:05:22,310 --> 00:05:36,657
Not in this regard, but just as an example of how difficult it is to ordain, not to become a bhikkhuni, but just to become a mechi, to become a nun, an eight precept nun.

54
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It was amazing the things that got in the way.

55
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When it's not ready to happen, it will not happen.

56
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And there was everything, everything conspired against us until finally this monk won't do it, that monk won't do it, this will do it, won't do it, will do it, won't do it.

57
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It was just until finally we had this head monk's approval that I could do it.

58
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He's like, well, you can just do it and do it in my name and then I'll sign and write her this nun card, ID card.

59
00:06:03,367 --> 00:06:07,132
And so we got back to the monastery and we're ready to perform this ceremony.

60
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And I said, okay, we perform the ceremony, all right, and pull out your robes.

61
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She pulls out her robes, two lower robes, two skirts.

62
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We pull them out, one package is the skirt, one package is the upper robe.

63
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Turns out they're both skirts.

64
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She didn't have enough robes to her.

65
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It was ridiculous.

66
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So I went to my room.

67
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And in the corner there was this old bed sheet that was crumpled up and it wasn't even washed.

68
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I picked it up.

69
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It's white.

70
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And I said, here, this is your upper robe.

71
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So her first robe was... I said at that time that I never thought that I would end up in your bed sheets.

72
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All right, that's...

73
00:07:00,269 --> 00:07:06,057
But I actually didn't find it that difficult to ordain.

74
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It was just funny how it all conspired.

75
00:07:09,101 --> 00:07:24,943
But there are actually nuns who wanted to be a fully ordained nun or bhikkhuni for twenty years or more, and they just couldn't.

76
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If you look at it from that angle, my case was quick.

77
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And the other point, just to reiterate, that after you ordain it's even worse.

78
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If you're still clinging to something, forget it.

79
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Everything will come back to you, whether you've treated your parents badly,

80
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still clinging to your family and to relatives.

81
00:07:58,597 --> 00:08:03,803
You really have to take it seriously, otherwise it's quite meaningless.

82
00:08:04,844 --> 00:08:10,270
And even if you do stay as a monk, you'll find it's a waste of time.

83
00:08:10,330 --> 00:08:14,995
Clear everything up before you ordain, and be sure about it before you ordain.

84
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Like like really give up so that you say well and even if it doesn't work out I'll die before I go back to the lay life That's really it really should be to that extent.

85
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You should be ready to ready to to to give up I agree I agree with this To a large extent and I hope I will die in this ropes and

86
00:08:44,962 --> 00:09:01,114
But I want to say that sometimes it is better to be a monk for five years or even for three months than not to be a monk at all.

87
00:09:04,250 --> 00:09:05,212
It's true.

88
00:09:05,232 --> 00:09:21,379
Oh yeah, I mean the idea of a temporary ordination, that's interesting because obviously there's many places that do allow you to ordain temporarily with full knowledge that you're going back to these things, these luxuries and so on.

89
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People who are married who come and ordain for three months because their wife sends them, go to the monastery for three months and become a good husband.

90
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Learn how to behave, go be a monk.

91
00:09:36,754 --> 00:09:45,142
So the problem is, as I said, and as I've said before in other places as well, is that it kind of makes a mockery of the monk's life.

92
00:09:45,162 --> 00:09:49,866
It's like, yeah, if monks, it's the same argument as monks should be able to get involved in politics.

93
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Why?

94
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Because monks can be really good politicians.

95
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But it's not appropriate.

96
00:09:55,972 --> 00:10:02,438
This is diluting the... I mean, this is observable.

97
00:10:02,418 --> 00:10:08,830
And I've been very closely involved in ordaining temporary monks again and again and again.

98
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And all it ends up doing is the long-term monks wind up orienting their life around it and their livelihood as well because you can make a lot of money.

99
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off of the temporary ordinations.

100
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They become totally overworked.

101
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They have no time to meditate because they're spending all their time teaching new monks.

102
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It's really difficult.

103
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Just to teach one person to be a good monk is an incredible task.

104
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Let alone teaching that person how to meditate.

105
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Just teaching them the rudiments of the monastic life.

106
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:53,552
So what happens is they don't and therefore the monks don't practice correctly and they spend their three months as poor monks, breaking rules and so on.

107
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So in the end, yeah, it's great for them that they've come and they've been able to do a lot of meditation or hopefully they've been able to do some meditation and give some things up.

108
00:11:02,905 --> 00:11:08,453
But it really is a corruption of the monastic organization.

109
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If they do decide, if they have the best intentions, and as you say, after five months, after five years or whenever, they realize it's not for them and decide to go back to the lay life, then there's nothing wrong with that.

110
00:11:23,692 --> 00:11:30,120
But to kind of hedge your bets, is that what it is?

111
00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:34,627
and keep some stash just in case you change your mind.

112
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Look, you're not ready.

113
00:11:37,151 --> 00:11:43,300
If it's like that, then keep meditating.

114
00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:43,761
I would say.

115
00:11:43,781 --> 00:11:46,986
I mean, only because I want to keep the monastic life pure.

116
00:11:47,367 --> 00:11:50,532
And certainly I'm a hypocrite in the sense that I wasn't like that.

117
00:11:50,672 --> 00:11:57,022
I ordained with really the best of... I never intended to destroy, but I wasn't ready for it.

118
00:11:57,062 --> 00:11:57,863
I had many...

119
00:11:57,843 --> 00:12:05,374
I'm not a hypocrite, but in general, I would say clear things up, because not everything was cleared up for me.

120
00:12:06,636 --> 00:12:09,440
But really, I did have that intention when I ordained.

121
00:12:09,540 --> 00:12:10,721
It was a one-way path for me.

122
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There was no question whether I might disrobe at some time in the future.

123
00:12:15,308 --> 00:12:22,799
Of course, I know you never can say, you never can say, but I've never had the worry, what will I do if I disrobe?

124
00:12:22,839 --> 00:12:25,723
I know if I disrobe, then maybe it'll be really difficult.

125
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In the end it will only be seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling and thinking.

126
00:12:30,951 --> 00:12:34,116
Whether I'm living on the street, I mean I've lived on the street as a monk.

127
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I've lived on a park bench and under a picnic table and gone without food and worn rags.

128
00:12:42,408 --> 00:12:45,433
If that's what it's going to be when I disrobe, then that's what it's going to be.

129
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If you're not ready for that, then I would say it's not proper for you to consider to ordain.

130
00:12:58,315 --> 00:13:00,318
Maybe that's too harsh, but that's what I would like to say.

131
00:13:00,338 --> 00:13:01,140
I think that's too harsh.

132
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I'm a harsh sort of monk.

133
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All right.