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Misha says she's confused why music is not allowed for monks.

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If music is simply vibrations entering the eardrums, and so is listening to the sounds of nature during meditation, what's wrong with using music to help the concentration?

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a sense pleasure.

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It's something that you go to.

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It's not really strictly forbidden to monks to hear music at all, but to go to listen to music, that is not allowed.

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So if a monk happens to hear music,

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where or there is music where the monk is meditating then we acknowledge it but to go and and want to listen to music that is the problem not not the sound itself when there is music it is as you say just vibrations entering the eardrums

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same as any other sound of nature or of material.

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The other thing is that you are mentioning what's wrong with using music to help the concentration.

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It's a

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This would be a... is that crutch, that word?

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Yeah.

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This would be a crutch.

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You should have concentration without a crutch.

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That's a good concentration.

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When you only can concentrate with music, and there is no music, then you're lost.

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You're not able to concentrate.

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So, always try to

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learn to concentrate or meditate without any help, without any crutches.

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And another question you could ask is, if music is simply vibrations, then why do you need a specific meditation?

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Why would you need a specific meditation?

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What is it about that certain meditation that helps you concentrate?

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When I was in Jomtong, there would be once a year a two-week festival in the parking lot of the monastery.

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A big parking lot because it was a tourist attraction.

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The temple area itself was a big tourist attraction.

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But unfortunately the meditation center was quite close to the temple.

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And they would have a huge stage set up and carnival attractions and the music was 24-7 for two weeks.

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This loud boom-boom techno music or all sorts of music and so on.

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And I didn't find it helped with our concentration at all.

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But eventually you realize what you're saying, you have this theory.

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you have an intellectual understanding that it's simply vibrations, but on the other hand you seem to be partial towards certain vibrations, that certain vibrations and certain states of mind are preferable to others.

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And this is what we try to change in meditation.

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We try to realize that it's actually not the case, that there is no

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There is no difference between this vibration and that vibration.

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We try to do away with our partialities.

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And as Paññani said, to be comfortable in any situation.

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I think the key is you're choosing the wrong quality of mind here when you say concentration.

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Because it has to be admitted that there are certain vibrations that probably can affect the brainwaves and induce a certain state of trance in the mind.

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There are people who have these brainwave CDs, and it's not music, but some kind of audio that affects the brain and increases the theta waves or the beta waves.

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I don't know, whatever waves in the mind that should be increased and whichever should be reduced, it helps to do that.

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This isn't the goal of Buddhism, this isn't the goal of the Buddhist teaching.

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The goal is to see that everything, any state that arises will have to cease, and so it's not of any benefit.

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If there are certain sounds that calm you, then yeah, it might be a benefit in the beginning to help you to settle into the meditation, but it can become a crutch, and not only that,

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Because it's a sensual enjoyment, because it gives rise to some kind of pleasant physical sensation, just like pleasant foods, pleasant sights and so on, smells.

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People use aromatherapy to calm themselves down.

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If it does create calm, it's considered to be wrong calm, because it's calm based on partiality and based on a certain type of experience.

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It's not calm that is aloof from experience.

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So as long as the smell is there, you'll be calm.

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When the smell goes away, or when someone flatulates, for example, then you'll be upset again.

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Or when you're listening to your calming music and then someone comes in, storms into the room and starts yelling, you'll get very angry at them instead of saying, I'm trying to meditate, I'm trying to be calm here.

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You'll get up and yell at them.

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So you can argue as much as you want, but the fact that you're calm, you're creating this habit of requirement for this to make you calm is really setting you up for the impermanence of the situation.

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You will be less calm as a result when other sounds arise, when more unpleasant sounds arise.

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When you have to go to Jomtong for two weeks during their festival and meditate through two weeks of

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of techno music.

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Itra has a related question.

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Should we go through this right away?

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Yeah, we can, sure.

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Could we use music as a meditation tool to study our attachment and reactions to music, whether it be pleasure or displeasure?

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I wouldn't recommend it.

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I wouldn't recommend using any object of attachment in that way actively.

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So if it means going on and turning on the music just to see how you enjoy it, the only problem is that catch, that you're giving rise to the volition to create unwholesome states of mind.

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You're intending to give rise to the defilements.

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Now, using music that exists as a meditation tool is perfectly valid.

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When the music is there, that's exactly what you should do.

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If you love the music, you should be mindful of it.

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This is how I would suggest you should deal with all addictions, if it's even a sexual attraction.

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The best thing to do is to

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be able to see or at least visualize, in your mind you may not want to stare at the person, but visualize, or when the visualization comes up, to acknowledge it.

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No, I don't mean staring, but when you see something that's attractive to you, to use that as an object, and not even necessarily look away, but to use it as an object of meditation.

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If you can.

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Now the problem is with all of these things is that

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If your mindfulness isn't strong, rather than give rise to wholesome mind states, you'll just give rise to defilement on both sides.

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Defilement of liking the music or liking the visual or whatever.

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Or getting angry at yourself or hating the fact that you're becoming addicted again or feeling guilty about it and worrying about it and afraid about it.

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You can use these things and you should eventually use these things directly.

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If you're addicted to music, eventually you should take it directly as a meditation object.

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But especially for a beginner meditator, it's absolutely improper and it should be forbidden.

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Music should not be allowed near meditators.

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because their minds are so untrained that they have no ability to do this.

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Instead, as a result, when they hear the music outside of their rooms, they'll become obsessed with it, and it will destroy their concentration, because they don't know how to say hearing, hearing, and so on.

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So in the beginning, absolutely, meditators should be sheltered, and only slowly, slowly be given back the objects of attraction.

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once their minds become strong and able to deal with the small things, like the basic desires for food and so on, and being able to deal with sitting still for long periods.

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I mean, that's really enough.

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I wouldn't suggest using all of these things for a beginner meditator.

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The same is if you dislike the music,

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it has to be noticed as well and all what what Bunty said

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is valid for disliking of music as well.

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When there is music that you have to hear because it is there and you are in your room and can't go away while meditating, then you can of course as well meditate on your reactions and on your displeasure and on your disliking.

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But for a beginner meditator, you want to still shelter them from it, if possible, because it's very difficult and it makes people run away.

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It also can lead them to, because they're not able to deal with it impartially, it leads them to repress and it can cause problems in their meditation practice.

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So it's something that you do have to be compassionate about in the beginning.