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Is it a good thing to have a goal in meditation practice?

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For example, my goal is to enter the first jhana.

3
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Yeah, sure.

4
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Why not?

5
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Goals are good.

6
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They can be good and bad.

7
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No, it depends.

8
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Are you just sitting in meditation saying, when's the first jhana going to come?

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I don't like talking about the jhanas because they're so tricky.

10
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And if you read what people say about them, there was this funny book.

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One of our meditators, who actually became a novice for a while, he brought a book about samadhi.

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I think the book was called Samadhi.

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And he was saying I should read it.

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He said, you know, you should read it.

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And so I started looking through it and I said,

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you've got ten different people giving ten different opinions of jhana, basically.

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It was a Buddhist book about saman.

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And he said, yeah, isn't it funny?

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This one single book showed how ridiculous it was, how nobody had, they couldn't come to any consensus.

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There was no agreement among the ten different people, I don't know how many people.

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about what it means.

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And so you get people asking questions like, I got this and this and this state.

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Was that the first jhana?

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Or I think I entered into the first jhana or so on.

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And you really get a sense of attachment that they're really attached to this idea that did I get it?

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I got it.

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And so on.

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And to me that shows the danger, potential danger of... No, I mean there's nothing dangerous about the states.

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But the danger of...

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category or what is it giving them a an entity you know saying the first jhana the second jhana they're just stages i mean it's the same meditation it's just they get deeper and deeper and deeper like seasons well kinda i mean like like stages of stages of fruit or stages of milk like first it's milk and then it's ghee and then it's butter and then it's cheese

31
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But the mark between the two is arbitrary, are you saying?

32
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No, not arbitrary, but I don't like to put labels on things.

33
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And you shouldn't.

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If you read this book, you see, oh, jhana can be many different things.

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The point is, do you have the hindrances or not?

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And if you want a goal, the goal should be to get rid of the hindrances.

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I wouldn't reach so low as the first jhana.

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I would reach to the end, get rid of...

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the defilements in the mind or at least you know look at it as getting rid of the hindrances I mean put it in in practical terms rather than say attain this and it's not just jhana it goes with sotapanna as well you hear a lot of people asking this question about becoming a sotapanna should I make a goal to attain sotapanna you know Ajahn Chah said don't become anything he said

40
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What do you want to be something?

41
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Why do you want to take something on?

42
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Buddhism is not about adding to yourself.

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It's about subtracting from the self.

44
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So look at it as becoming a better person, if you will, or look at it as removing.

45
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things like the Buddha said, what are we aiming for?

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It's not happiness, it's the freedom from suffering.

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Why is that?

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Because you don't want to add something.

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We're not looking for a positive state of happiness.

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We're looking to be free, to give up, to let go, so that we can accept anything, so that we don't need anything.

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But if you have certain goals, I would say they can potentially be beneficial in terms of, you know,

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getting your butt out of bed and onto the meditation mat.

53
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And if it's just that, if it's just something that pushes you on, that can be useful, I think.

54
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Anybody else?

55
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Well, you know, you're saying a very important point, which is the distinction between that meditation is not the object of your meditation.

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Your mind is really your meditation, whether you're

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focusing on an object or not, whether you're concentrating on your breath, whether you're concentrating on your walking.

58
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Really, your meditation is being very consciously aware of, as Gautama said, of sitting, standing, eating, sleeping, lying down.

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That is really your meditation.

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And where is the mind and where is the emotion?

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you know are you scattered throughout the day well that is really your medication you know maybe when you try to sit down and focus on an object of concentration you know we can talk about oh I've attained this level of Samadhi or jhana but really you probably if you're not recognizing that it has to be a continuity

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of that mind throughout all your active conscious activities and some meditators will go so far as to say even during sleep so you know talking about achieving levels is is still part of almost that myth we were discussing earlier you know can for sure be okay i got i got another a couple of really interesting questions oh i'm gonna quit this